iGaming Daily

Ted (00:05.51)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Orme-Claye (00:07.736)
What do mean? Like that? Okay, cool.

Charlie Horner (00:14.136)
Flutter Entertainment has dealt yet another blow to the UK by announcing that it will delist from the London Stock Exchange at the end of July. The Skybet, Paddy Power, and Betfair Parent Company is ditching its LSE status in favour of the New York Stock Exchange, where it first listed in 2024 to support its US strategy, headlined by FanJuel. So, why has Flutter left the LSE and what does it tell us about the group's strategic thinking?

And what does it mean for the UK economy and online gambling sector? Welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by OpsMove, the creator of positionless marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner, and today I'm joined by SBC Media's editor at large, Ted Menmure, and SBC News editor Ted Orm Clay.

Ted how are you? The World Cup is underway. are you enjoying it so far?

Ted (01:12.372)
I am. I haven't watched all the matches, I've seen the highlights, a couple of surprises there. Yeah, there's been good flow to the opening games, yeah, long may that last.

Charlie Horner (01:27.202)
Very good, and Ted LC, how are you?

Ted Orme-Claye (01:29.742)
Yeah, pretty good as well. Thank you, Charlie. Kind of similar to Ted's camp. I've been enjoying watching the highlights from a lot of the games, but I've not been, yeah. It's a bit difficult to stay tuned to them when they're all at two or three in the morning. Well, not all, you know, but yeah. It's like I Ted said, it's been some pretty lively openers, hasn't there? I mean, yeah, Jeremy.

Ted (01:43.582)
Yeah.

Ted (01:50.324)
Watch out England!

Charlie Horner (01:52.366)
Well we'll try and get you in the Insomnia Club by the end of this week and see how we all get along.

Ted Orme-Claye (01:57.009)
Yeah, fair play to Curaçao for getting that goal against Germany as well. Yeah, yeah.

Charlie Horner (02:04.032)
At least they had the moment, yeah.

Okay, well let's let's dive into this because this was the the big story that dropped on on Friday. and I think it's important that we break this one down because Flutter is no longer dual-listed. It's going to delist from the LSE at the end of July. it follows a pretty short review process that I think Flutter announced that it was reviewing its position on the LSE w when it dropped its Q1 reports in May. but what your initial thoughts?

Ted (02:32.478)
I'm out.

Charlie Horner (02:37.018)
thoughts and reactions upon hearing this one. Ted O C, how about you go first?

Ted (02:39.006)
Come out.

Ted Orme-Claye (02:41.616)
I wasn't surprised at all. You mentioned that they've been reviewing it recently. Like you said, it was a very short review. They only announced it when they revealed their Q1 accounts a couple of months back. But there's been speculation about this for some time. I think it's been on leadership's mind for quite a while anyway. New York has been the primary listing for the company for a couple of years.

The US is by far its biggest market. FAMDUAL is by far its most valuable brand, the biggest revenue driver.

So yeah, it's been slowly shifting to being an American led business in the sense that the American markets lead its business model and lead revenue. So I don't find it particularly surprising all of them have ultimately opted to just focus, well not focus, sorry, but just list on the NYSE and have that lead them from here on out.

Charlie Horner (03:40.44)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Horner (03:45.112)
Sure. And and Ted i it brings to an end a a historic relationship between Flutter and some of its brands and and the LSE. I think it goes back to about two thousand. So were you surprised at all or w were you expecting this news as well?

Ted (03:59.718)
Okay, there was a sense in the air that this delisting would be triggered by Flutter, but it's viewed as an early play and from feedback and reaction, it seems that it's been done so to placate US investors following what is kind of a halving of the share price since 2025.

I guess that Flutter's delisting should be viewed as another signal that an era is closing for UK gambling and that on a global scale it's kind of entering a new phase of strategy for PLCs and their investor base and relationships and you know viewing it through my lens it's no longer organic and it's certainly more ruthless.

Charlie Horner (04:50.305)
Yeah, w we'll get into the reasons for for why we think that Flutter has decided to to go ahead with this delisting i i in just a moment. But Ted O see, what what did the company itself tell the stock exchange and tell investors about its reasons for leasing leaving London? And maybe does it pass the s the sense check? Do you think those those reasons are valid?

Ted Orme-Claye (05:17.968)
I don't know what did they tell them. you ask that again to Ted? I'm sorry Charlie.

Ted (05:20.041)
Okay, keep knocking out. Yeah.

Charlie Horner (05:23.607)
Sure, yeah. and Ted we'll we'll look at the reasons why we think that that Flutter has decided to to delist shortly, but but firstly, what did Flutter itself tell investors about why it's leaving London and does it pass the sense check?

Ted (05:42.897)
On reflection, I don't even view that any kind of sense comes into play. I think this is completely about the reality of Flutter and where it is. And you've seen a PLC that has changed its investor makeup in the past 12 months. And its investors are now demanding that the US becomes its primary home. If we look back at kind of the financial figures of Flutter,

we see that Fandula accounts for 40 % of group income and yet that is a division that we've seen this year that needs to undertake a revitalization and regain its position in the US market. Yes, Flutter still holds an international profile but I'm not sure whether US investors

really care about its international presence as they're much more kind of fixated on US growth and the US profile and the US status above all else. These are kind of the changing dynamics that Flutter has to heal and has to appeal to.

Charlie Horner (06:50.005)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Orme-Claye (06:50.423)
If I can just build on that, sorry, I think Ted's spot on there with what he says about what US investors and US analysts are most interested in. As you'll see on the website, as you'll see on iGaming Daily from various episodes that we've covered, know, Flutter's Q1s and, well, quarterlies and their full years and so on, we're always listening on the analyst's calls afterwards. The calls are always dominated by conversations around the US. That's always the lead topic. And ever since Flutter,

Set up its listing on the New York Stock Exchange and made that primary. It's know, it's shareholder base has been pretty dominated by American investors I think American investors and very American investment firms hedge funds and whatever so yeah, think I like Ted said it's just a reflection of of how it's How it how it's transformed as a business really over the years and how it's as I said earlier how it's become a lot more American led American dominant

in terms of markets and in terms of investors, 100%, I think Ted nailed it.

Charlie Horner (07:52.364)
Yeah, definitely. Flutter s said basically said the the same thing. They said that you know, th the the level of trading activity in London just doesn't match that of New York whatsoever. That you know, the the the there's not the liquidity there to sort of keep up with the cost.

Of actually being on the London Stock Exchange, so it just made financial sense to delist which which says a lot about Flutter's direction and also confidence of investors in in New York compared to London, perhaps. Now we've documented quite heavily over the last 18 months some of the problems that Flutter has has had to deal with. And and Ted, you mentioned that there's essentially been a halving of the share price over the last 18 months.

Ted (08:14.815)
Hmm.

Charlie Horner (08:36.161)
Do you think this is a ploy then to placate a very frustrated US investor base?

Ted (08:44.475)
It's hardcore employ and if we can reflect back on the 18 months that Flutter has undertaken, I think the recovery of this company is just as much about investor sentiment in the US as it is kind of its financial performance alone. Certainly, look, the US investors in Flutter, they have to kind of regain trust in the leadership and it has been a brutal...

12 to 14 months there for the share prices and its long term investors and just witnessing that 50 % drop in the share price value. Look, valuation wise, this is a huge year in what Fandial contributed to the company. Can it return to kind of its relentless kind of growth status that investors loved?

Can it protect and kind of regain market share in the US against growing competition? And finally, and this is the one that everyone's quite skeptical about, is can it kind of regain that confidence and that investor trust in the position against sports betting, against the encroachment of prediction markets? That's kind of changing all the dynamics in US valuations.

I think that this year especially, all eyes are kind of fixated on our fan duel.

Charlie Horner (10:10.347)
Yeah, certainly. And you you you talk about some of those external factors that it's having to deal with, the rise of prediction markets, some of the tax and regulatory pressures it's fa facing globally, and there's a a lot of pressure on FanJuel to deliver. I I think this is a story of how ruthless that Flutter's leadership is being and and has been over the last few months to try and turn around the the company's fortunes.

We think we think back to Amy Howe leaving her role as as FanJuel CEO. This London Stock Exchange delisting, Skybet r relocated its headquarters to to Malta from from Leeds. and the and and the you know, there's there's job reductions or role reductions across the board. Ted O C, what what do you think this tells us about leaderships

Ted (10:37.437)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Horner (10:58.593)
Thoughts on the company's performance and and some of those external market conditions that that we've documented so heavily.

Ted Orme-Claye (11:07.983)
Just before we crack on, maybe just said that with the Skybet relocation, they do still have the office in Leeds and there is still quite a big base there. Yeah, they did initiate a bit of a transfer of some roles, I think, over to Malta last summer, I think in the middle of the tax debates. I think really, Charlie, just got to reiterate, like we said earlier, about the significance of the United States, really, and North America to Flutter's business.

Charlie Horner (11:14.795)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Orme-Claye (11:36.875)
Again, both in terms of the markets and how much revenue they generate. pointed out that Fangil is around 40 % of the company's revenue. It's easily the largest amount. And then there's the investor side of things as well. Like we said, if you look at who has a stake in Flutter, there's a significant number of American companies and American individuals on there. Yeah, it's really just sort of becoming a case of it's being led by the Americas and the rest of the world is kind of following.

mean that obviously they're going to call it quits in the UK or anything like that, but it's just more of a reflection of the fact that the UK is becoming a more difficult place at the moment with both the new 40 % tax rate on online GGR, a lot of the regulatory uncertainties that we've got at the moment with the gambling at review recommendations still being adopted. We're not quite sure where things are going with affordability. There's conversations about the aim to permit rule around retail licensing.

Ted (12:33.909)
Hmm.

Ted Orme-Claye (12:36.689)
which will affect the paddy power business. Yeah, again, it's just sort of a reflection of the fact that it's becoming America's led and the UK is becoming a trickier spot. They don't want to bail entirely on the UK, but it makes sense that.

for some reasons around like listings and administration and regulation they're going to want to put leadership elsewhere while retaining a presence if that makes sense.

Charlie Horner (13:03.82)
Mm-hmm.

Charlie Horner (13:07.478)
Sure, sure. And Ted anything to to add on on to that? Because Footer are making bold moves to try and turn the fortunes around, aren't they?

Ted (13:15.408)
Yeah, I'm going to put it more simply than 10OC. To me, it's leadership playing the hand that they've really been given. as I reported last week on this actual news, everything tells us that in 2026, it's Flutter versus all elements. This is a leadership team that is dealing with a lot of shifts at the moment and a lot of headwinds.

Charlie Horner (13:43.75)
Mm-hmm. Okay, well Ted Ted, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and and maybe talk about how this this reflects on the UK as well as the US.

Welcome back to iGaming Daily. Now Flutter isn't the only large company to delist from the London Stock Exchange in the last couple of years and maybe just taking our sort of iGaming hats off for a second and putting our economic heads on f for a for a brief moment.

How how big of a blow is this f for for the UK to to lose a company like Flutter, and and a and a brand like Paddy Power, which has been listed in London for so long? Ted O. C. what do you think?

Ted Orme-Claye (14:28.046)
It is a blow, yeah. I would say it's definitely a bit of a blow to morale, to market confidence and to the government's fiscal outlook and the way it's policies around businesses and so on.

British government's always been stuck between a rock and a hard place for some time anyway with the need, the country's in dire need of investment. That investment has got to come from somewhere. It would make sense to obviously tax businesses to get that from many policy makers. And yeah, they're now having a problem with companies not viewing the country as the ideal place to list.

Because of some of these factors, I think, but then also just because of general economic problems we've been having here for the past 20 years or so really. Flutter's decision to delist is, that's not anything new. We've seen quite a few cases of companies either calling it quits on the LSE or deciding to avoid it entirely. remember back when I worked on payments, there was always a big conversation about where Klarna would opt to list after having

experiencing a ton of growth in the BNPL space over the past couple of years and they ultimately decided not to go for the LSE. There's quite a few cases of that. So it does deal a bit of a blow to the government and their stated policy when they came in, their objective sorry, when they came into power last July of wanting to bring businesses into the UK and attract investment into it.

Yeah, the fact that a company like Flutter, which I think is the second biggest listed gambling business in the world by market cap after Las Vegas Sands. Yeah, the fact that they've decided to call it quits isn't a great look. It's definitely a blow to morale, I think. Carry on, Ted, go on.

Ted (16:11.06)
Yeah.

Ted (16:21.181)
Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, this is an economic liability that's been raised by two governments that the premiership of Rishi Sunak followed by Keir Starman and...

mean, yes, London remains an economic hub for banking and trading. The issue here is that firms, especially those big corporations at a PSC level, are seeking elsewhere to list kind of blue chip stocks. And we're seeing this in the kind of the format of the LSC, which, OK, it's now losing Flutter, it will lose a Vogue. But other major corporations, you've got the packaging firms, Mercer Cap.

arm holdings and the sugar giant has taken Nile all leaving the LSC. It's a situation that is kind of perplexing the government as to why this is happening.

Charlie Horner (17:18.964)
Yeah, it's i it it is I mean, it might be per perplexing for the government, but it's perhaps not perplexing for us to t on the on the outside to look in. London and the UK has become much less competitive than the United States, perhaps in the last ten years, and the U the US government the US economy has grown much, much faster than than us over the last ten years as well. but but y you both raised the point that this government came in telling everyone that

Ted (17:37.449)
Yeah.

Charlie Horner (17:48.412)
Growth is the is the is the aim of the game and ultimately it it hasn't really sort of transpired that way and that that hurts all industries, but it also hurts iGaming as well. and and this it sort of culminates in this decision. but how have investors reacted to to this news in particular? have Flutters shares begun to rebound at all or what what what's the market reaction been like?

Sedam, have you got this one?

Ted (18:17.555)
Okay, so since the announcement, Flutter's share price has increased and has moved to above the $110 mark.

But I wouldn't necessarily break it down to the delistings. Also, there are many factors in there, such as the start of the World Cup, the busy sports seasons, changes in management, and actually Flutter getting out to market what it's prioritizing in terms of its yearly agenda and refreshing found yield and investors backing that strategy. Long-term investors will take this positively, especially in the US. Flutter pushes early on a

listing which was a key kind of dynamic that is coming to play and even to an extent I think that unless the saying that this might help kind of stabilize the share the share price of flutter against short trading that it's been kind of openly kind of aware

that it has been open to kind of in the past six months, especially with kind of the halving of that share price. So it's a kind of stabilizing move. I think it will be viewed as that by existing shareholders. But mind you, as Ted said, look, there's been, yes, there's been a change in flutter, but there's been real, real changes in the shareholder makeup and what they want. Ted?

Charlie Horner (19:41.309)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and Ted yeah, feel free to add.

Ted Orme-Claye (19:42.99)
Yeah, mean to say, you know, on the shareholder, we've seen some very interesting, prior to this decision regarding the primary listings, we've seen some very interesting changes in flutter shareholding over the past couple of months. You know, the biggest one that we've reported on is American billionaire, Cayman Islands based American billionaire, Kenneth Dart has become the biggest single shareholder in the company. He's got about 27 % vote.

voting rights now, which is just a very interesting development to see him gradually increasing his share of voting rights in the company over the past year or so. And yeah, I guess that again, that just reflects like we saying earlier, the changing investor dynamic and what their objectives will be.

There could even be bit of speculation that someone like Kendark could be looking to mount an ownership bid with how much he's been increasing his shareholding. Like I said, that's just purely speculative. But yeah, like I saying, it just shows you how much the balance has changed in terms of their investor make up.

Charlie Horner (20:55.753)
Also a perhaps a sign.

of confidence among those people who are starting to increase this their stake in in operators like Flutter. just as we come to the end now then, let's let's look at this from from a bit of a wider lens because we we've spoken a lot about this sort of reshaping of the global gambling sector given the re-regulation that we're seeing, the the the retaxation that we're seeing as well. And we we've said there that Flutter are are the second biggest gl you know globally listed gamblers.

Ted (21:20.597)
you

Charlie Horner (21:27.277)
So you know, everything that they do within this context should be noteworthy. How do we how do we assess Flutter's moves given some of those wider market conditions that we we've talked about? Ted

Ted (21:43.759)
I, from my view, I think let's start by separating flutter out.

I think this tells us that for Flutter, US growth is the most value dynamic and everything else comes second. And this is the bare bones reality for a company that wants to be the highest valued gambling PLC. That's been in the agenda since it formed with the Patti Power Betfair, then acquired the Stars Group and subsequent acquisition of FanDuel. That is the

That's the bullseye for Flutter. And this is a company that if it wants to hit these elevated valuations of plus 50 billion, it has to be stateside. It has to have its maximum engagement in those markets. However, I think that when we step back, we're now seeing that at the investor levels, it's...

I think the sentiments are shifting by geographies. think the European PLCs are taking a very different dynamic to the US ones. And even they have to be kind of separated and treated in a different manner from what they're growing and what their of growth profiles are. I think that from an investor point of view, this really comes down to kind of taste.

your risk appetite and what you see in the future direction of gaming. Is it going to go towards this hyper, hyper growth stage in the US or does it plateau out in much more about margin controls and cost savings that we're seeing in Europe? Ted, what's your takeaway on this?

Ted Orme-Claye (23:31.706)
God, I don't know. think you've covered all bases really there, Ted. Yeah, I guess if we just focus on the UK side of things, it's just, yeah, again, an indicative of the trend that the UK market is quite a difficult one to operate in right now, but it still remains valuable and that the American markets are just continuing to grow.

you mentioned earlier Charlie, perhaps is this a sign of investor confidence? Yeah, certainly, I think it could be, as in some of the shareholder change-ups we've seen. And perhaps the fact that Flutter has been taking big decisions around leadership and around where its primary listings are.

might give people the confidence to think, right, this is a business that knows its trajectory, it knows its direction, and that will give them some confidence there. The big, yeah, big, a big factor just as it goes down the line is just what

what continuing impact we see from predictions markets, I think in the US on the regulated betting sector there. There was definitely a bit of a sense, I think among some investors and analysts and industry observers, that Flutter might have been a bit too late to the party when it joined, when it launched Fanjul Predicts in December last year. It was the third big US gambling operator to do so. And I think there was definitely a sense that Flutter might have had, could have had a first mover advantage because of its experience of running the bet fair.

Ted (24:35.445)
yeah.

Ted Orme-Claye (25:01.135)
exchange and know there's lots we could talk about the comparisons between prediction markets and betting exchanges till the cows come home but yeah there might have been a bit of a censor they were late to it but now that Fangil predicts is starting to make a bit of an impact it's starting to find a good customer base I think so yeah that's going to be a big factor that's going to shape how this business continues to evolve I think how that predictions market angle goes

And then factoring into that, the wider regulatory and legal conversation around those as well, you know, we're still seeing litigation between state regulators and prediction markets like Cal-She, so whether or not that could end up impacting the bookies as well is one to be seen.

Charlie Horner (25:45.065)
Yeah, certainly. There's so many angles at play here. and I'm sure we'll continue to monitor everything that's going on on SBC News and iGaming Daily. But for now, Ted, Ted, thanks ever so much for joining me today. Thanks to Optimo for supporting the show as always, and to our audience, thanks for tuning in to today's episode of iGaming Daily. And come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news.