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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. That's a phrase attributed to Marcus Aurelius, even though he was actually quoting someone else, and he probably meant it in a different way that we're gonna use it today, but we're gonna be talking about perspective, about perception of the gambling industry here. on iGaming Daily brought to you by OptiMove, the creator of positionless marketing, number one player engagement solution for iGaming and sports betting operators. I am Fernando Nod, Media Manager for SBC and your host for today in an episode where I am joined by two of the greatest ladies in the gambling industry, Lucia Gando, SBC Noticias Editor. How are you today, Lu? Hello, Fer. I'm happy to join the podcast from SBC Summit Rio. I'm happy to contribute to the debate about the Latin American market, so thank you for having me. A lot of conversations here in Rio during SBC Summit Rio 2026, definitely a great show. I have to say again, I probably said this a lot of times, but it's probably my favorite event from the SBC and of course, if it's my favorite event in SBC, it's my favorite event in the whole industry. uh But Ana Maria Menezes is also here to share with us her favorite event uh in the gambling industry, Ana Maria Menezes, researcher at SPC. How are you today? Hi, Fer. I'm very excited. mean, second episode, nice back. That's just let's break records here of appearances. Earning that paycheck. Yeah, but I'm pretty excited to be here as well. Enjoying Rio so far. And honestly, I'm Brazilian. This is a great city. And I get to talk to a lot of people that I never get to see otherwise. So of course my favorite event is SBC Summer Real No Questions. And you get to speak in your native language. do. And with other Brazilians, fellow Brazilians, fellow countrymen and women. So and them, country them. I don't know what the term would be but moving on, how did you find the event so far? As we are recording this, it's the final day of the event. By the time you're here in this, you're listening to this podcast, it's probably already over, but how are you finding the event so far? Honestly, it's been fun specifically because I feel like this event, because we're not on the rush of the regulation anymore. as we were last year, feel less than two full months in the regulation, all of that. ah I feel like we have more space to talk for this one. I was the host of a conference stage yesterday. I got to listen to some of the biggest regulators that we have in Brazil right now, including the SPA, the Secretary of Prices and Betting ah regulators. And it was very interesting because they gave us new perspective. including and I think it's a nice thing to tell our listeners that Brazil is officially as the regulators we are officially entering the prediction markets. So this is something for the next couple of months. But the regulator already told us about that yesterday. So it was at the stage, Danielle Cardoso, she just said, yes, I just want to let you guys know that we're writing talks with the regulator that takes care of draws which they would probably be considered once they get to Brazil. ah So yeah, we have exclusive uh information at our events so that was very nice to be a part of. Yeah, definitely and all our attendees are also um able to listen to all these industry leaders, these policy makers. So it's definitely a great place to be right now at BC Summit Rio if you are trying to make it in the greatly competitive Brazilian gambling. market. By way, want to hear about like this episode could be titled Perception and just that. So I want to hear your perception of SBC Summitary or 2026. Well, it's been great to meet with a lot of Latinos outside of Brazil, of course. uh This is a very event focused on Brazil, but Latinos are always here to try to to um mix. our markets together. are all learning from this industry and we are all changing the frameworks so it's important to keep the conversation open and examples of each market be something to follow up uh in every region. So it's been great to meet up with Latinos and also to be more in-depth. about what's going on in Brazil. As Ana mentioned, the predictions market is going to be the new topic of discussion around the world, and especially in this region, especially Brazil. So it's interesting to be learning all about it. Yeah, absolutely. And we also got to see Ronaldinho in the flesh, but that's a story for another day. uh As we time is running and I want to discuss some more things about Latin America in general and like I said This episode is all about perception and after a few years actually with positive news for the industry in Latin America as Regulation progress throughout the region the narrative seems to have shifted to a more hostile uh Style narrative so in the last few days Peco Juegos president Ever Montero Cardenas published the column arguing that the public debate is more based in perception rather than facts. and Fecol-Joyos, let's remind the audience, is a group that brings together the operators of the gambling industry in Colombia. So do you see this as a common thing that Evert brings to the table? Do you see it as a common issue across Latin American countries, Yes, in fact it's something we've been discussing in the past few days with every operator that is here. This is a recurring issue across multiple countries and new markets, especially in Latin America. The public debate often focuses on large headline numbers such as the total betting volume without distinguishing that approximately 90 % of wagers are returned to players and prices. And of course, the industry makes a lot of contribution to the country's economy and to social programs. this new discussion about uh taxation and strict measures against operators is something that is affecting the healthiness of the industry. uh becoming suffocated by all of this. And definitely the politicians across Latin America. I'm not looking at any countries in particular, Brazil, Peru, Colombia, but they see the industry as the giant with the never-ending pocket. So are we witnessing right now a structural increase in fiscal pressure on betting across Latin America without sufficient technical assessment? of long-term sustainability? Well, there is clearly a regional trend towards higher taxation. That's the main issue. In Colombia, the introduction of the VAT on deposits directly impacts cash flow and margins. Now it was taken off, but it's now discussed. The government is now discussing another. tax in Peru and Brazil discussions are also moving towards stronger fiscal frameworks and potential increases. people are worried in general and you can't really see the point of this because in the numbers all we can see is that the illegal market is still growing and the concern is not taxation itself, but whether these measures are supported by long-term technical assessment, And things we can really check in the industry. Absolutely, absolutely. And Ana, we kind of talked about this in depth on the previous iGaming Daily episode, so once you are done with this, go back and listen. Definitely give that a listen, but... I want to hear your perspective on Brazil, which was about to enforce a big, big tax hike, but eventually that died down in the Chamber of Deputies, was it? Yeah. in Chamber of Deputies. So what's going on in Brazil and how was the perception of the gambling industry tax-wise in Brazil? OK, so ah it died for now, but it's coming back. So it's... uh They just couldn't be able to push the tax raise in that specific bill. So the focus of the bill is anti-faction. That is pretty much the name of the bill. Anti-factions. And they're just trying to go for another, from another angle. If I can say it this way. uh and about how the public sees it, because Lou was just mentioning the public debate being uh more about perception than facts. I feel like that happens a lot here as well. So there's a lot of conversation around, is uh the IDD industry good? People may think no, therefore we need to text them. It's just a very direct uh process. of just of thought of process of thought and all of that. But honestly, it just it doesn't feel like it's centered around facts. It's centered about on actually here on what people think to be ethics and morals. So again, ethics and morals are not really measurable. It's we cannot measure how moral or how ethic something is. So that's again, not facts, perceptions. And yeah, I believe that's around how it's perceived and all of that. I believe this would be it. And we all always keep circling back to Ebermontero's argument about the public debate being based in perception rather than facts. So it's a very interesting thing to see. And it's always very interesting to see how, like, Latin American countries are with each other. But of course, each have their own regulation, their own regulatory framework in terms of gambling, taxes and all that, but they're still very similar. um we all share the same issues across all Latin America and um the industry needs to find a way to address them. But right now we will continue discussing how the industry will address these issues and... our perception of this issue on iGaming Daily, but right now we're going to do a very quick ad break and we will be right back with more. And we're back with more iGaming Daily to continue discussing perception, specifically around the gambling industry and uh triggered by what the president of Ecoluolo Severo Monteiro Cardenas wrote in a column recently about how the public debate is more based on perception rather than facts. And Lu, you already kind of mentioned um the illegal market being benefited or having been gripping the benefits of this uh wrongful perception of the gambling industry having the never-ending pockets. So at what point does this higher taxation begin to undermine competitiveness and push consumers towards the illegal market? Well, licensed operators already eh are under strict compliance frameworks including MLA controls, consumer protection policies, reporting standards and responsible gaming obligations. And when higher taxes are added on top of rising compliance costs, margins compress significantly and over time this can slow investment, reduce market expansion and limit the ability of companies to innovate. responsibly within the regulated space. We know that we need better technology and investment in the development of the industry in general and without the sufficient margins to do that it's going to be um a full industry, Absolutely, absolutely. And Ana, you've also been covering this issue very thoroughly recently. So why don't you let us know what you were, what you found out. Finally, when you announced the title uh researcher at ICBC, now I can say, okay, this is what I do. ah We've been, uh we just launched with 1xBAT a report. about Latin America and more specifically its focus on player protection and we covered, we interviewed uh many lawyers, operators, regulators to just get a deep insight into the industry, into the Latin American industry more specifically. And in one of the conversations that I had, I clearly remember one operator mentioning the players, they just want the money. They don't care if it comes from a regulator or an illegal operator. They want to pay less taxes and they want it to be done easy. And that's the part where or just get stuck, okay, you want easy money, what does easy money come with? You're paying less taxes, okay, but you're working, you're working, oh sorry, you're betting on a company. with a company actually. You're with a company that is that there's no guarantee that you're going to get your money actually. You're betting with a company that has no direct impact into your country, the country that you contribute with taxes and all of that. ah There's a more in-depth conversation, especially with operators, about how we can actually get the player what they want. But how can we teach them that just getting easy money is not the end goal but being responsible with how you're betting? So I think this is ah something that easily pushes the player towards the illegal market. It's about the money in this case, right? And it's interesting if you guys go and check the report. ah It's available already in our... SBC media uh LinkedIn, you guys can check that out. And there's a lot of nice and not only nice but interesting information there about how Latin American countries behave in terms of regulation and how the legal market takes advantage of that. Definitely go check that report out after you finish listening to this episode because it will expand your perception about things and they will give you uh a bigger framework to work with but uh how can operators actually absorb increasing compliance, Lula actually already mentioned something about compliance, and responsible gambling obligations while simultaneously facing rising tax burdens? I think like operators need to be a bit more proactive in terms of uh engaging policymakers, of course there's a lot of people, there's a lot of work done by the industry in this sense. But I do think that the industry needs to step it up a little bit. Maybe they will say some fair that other industries don't need to do this, but it's the reality is this, that the industry is often looked at like a uh revenue generator and nothing more. So it definitely needs to be more proactive. But how do you think that operators can absorb this decision? Honestly, think from what you said, that I believe that maybe depends on the country. In Brazil, don't think, I honestly think that the industry is maybe doing way much more than what's expected. So, going out of their way a lot to help regulators to be present and to just almost like guiding. a baby and just sort of learn, teaching them how to, I don't know, walk or something like that. Because this, like it or not, this industry is very, it's fairly new here, the regulated one. And lawmakers are not used to it. They're used to the lottery model, which is the one that we've had for many, many, many years as the regulated one. So there's also that. They're teaching their own business to people. who technically should know, but they don't. So I do believe that is also a hardship with compliance, and this is also very interesting. When talking to operators, we realize that uh by gathering data, that the biggest issue that the operators in Latin America have with compliance is actually how expensive technological fees are. So that is. that is for a fight with all the operators, with almost, sorry, all the operators we talked to, this was an issue. So it wasn't the regulatory framework. It wasn't really the leadership not wanting it. It was how expensive it usually is. So technological issues in that. So we already have data there to just sort of back this. And I think the- Yeah, that's really- And sorry. Go ahead, Lu. No, think the issue with that is that only bigger operators and international operators are able to sustain the operating costs. we see that local and smaller operators are being crushed out by them. So it's kind of a monopoly right now, especially in Latin America. So that's a major concern as well. And to give the Roman references, don't get me wrong. I do think that the industry is doing a lot of work, especially in Brazil. Like Ana said, we've seen plenty of policymakers here at SBC 73 or 2026. that speaks of itself. It speaks about itself. But the Caesar's wife must be above suspicion. And that means that things must not only be, but you should be able to see. that they are. Hopefully I'm making myself clear here. But I mean, the industry needs to show the general public and the policymakers that it is actually doing the things that it is actually doing. And again, I know that the industry is already working hard to be compliant and to enforce a regulatory framework that works both for the industry and the population in Brazil and of course in Latin America. um To some extent, the industry does the same thing. But uh I think that they need to be even more proactive in terms of corporate social responsibility, do some more campaigns and not keep the responsible gambling straight to a message on their websites and all that. I think that the general public needs to see more of the industry uh to change that perception again about the industry, which is not always the truth. its own perception. But that's the issue I think the industry is facing. But to wrap this up, do you guys think that Latin American operators are prepared for a period of heightened political scrutiny and fiscal tightening through 2026 and 2027? Of course, there was a lot of elections coming across Latin America, a lot to be discussed and probably the gambling industry will be in the center of the discussion used as a political tool rather than an actual rather than the politics actually addressing the issues like they should be. Well, it's a challenge, but we are a very resilience territory. So I think this will be also applied to the gaming industry here. I fully agree. mean, we went through so much already and survived as a continent in general. really think, I mean, we can just handle things. I believe that. uh And doing that. Well being considered some of our countries the happiest in the world. So let's just let's just let's just take that in but Yeah, I 100 % agree. I think We've dealt with worse Definitely a lot to come in Latin America. So hashtag wait and see. I'm not leaving that out today and not today not tomorrow But yeah a lot to come. So make sure you are subscribed to all SBC media newsletter, especially SBC Noticias and SBC Noticias Brazil in this case where they cover all information around the Latin American markets and of course the Brazilian market which is also in Latin America but it has a life of itself so it has its own website now led by editor Leonardo Biazzi A big shout out to him and the Miss Amarcanti Business Journalist for SBC News in Brazil. This has been all for today on iGaming Daily. Thank you very much, Lucy Agando and Maria Laneses. Thank you very much, Aniella McDonough. Aniella? No, it's Aniella McDonough for producing this episode, the great producer of iGaming Daily, the great mind behind the podcast. I am Fernando Anocht and to our listeners out there, we'll see you in the next one. Goodbye.