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Hello everyone, thanks for tuning in and welcome to iGaming Daily's Road to Lisbon series, a series of conversations of industry leaders who will be speaking at the SBC Summit Lisbon next month. I'm Ted Ormeclay from SBC News and for today's episode on iGaming Daily, sponsored by Optimu, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market, I'll be speaking with Nicole Garrett, head of responsible gambling at Allwin, which is obviously a very significant company as the operator of the UK national lottery. as well as one of leading presence in a lot of different markets like Greece and Austria. Thanks for joining us, Nicole. How are you doing today? I guess looking ahead a bit further, how are you looking forward to your appearance at Lisbon next month? I'm doing great today. Thank you for inviting me. I'm really looking to Lisbon. It will be my first time going to SPC Lisbon, so I'm really excited to speak about some of the initiatives we're working on in responsible gaming. Yeah, you've got a very interesting panel and it's one that's obviously the topic is very important right now in this industry. You've got some very good co-panelists as well, think from what I remember from looking at the agenda. So it's definitely one of the good ones to look out for. So to start things off on this topic, could you give us a bit of an overview of what practices and policies Alwyn has around player protection and responsible gaming? Sure. So as you'd expect at Alwyn, we embed responsible gaming. across the full ecosystem of what we do from product design to marketing, to the tools we offer our customers. As we're lottery-led entertainment company, we obviously are European Lotteries and World Lotteries Association certified at highest level for responsible gaming, which is great. But I think what makes us pretty different at Alwin is that we're completely focused on collaboration and cross-market sharing. So we have very well established businesses across many geographies. We've obviously got OPEC in Greece, SASCA, Austrian lotteries. So we have a wealth of experience and we have some incredibly talented responsible gaming experts, some of them in the industry for 30 years, starting on the casino floor and now running responsible gaming teams in their market. So we are really driven by sharing all of that and building global safety standards in responsible gaming. Obviously taking into account all the different cultures and consumers we have, but we're really driven by that and a desire to sort of look for the next biggest thing in responsible gaming innovation and research. So we're actually going to be launching a new initiative in September, hopefully before SPC Lisbon, so I could talk about it on my panel, that's completely driven by finding that new thing. and investing in research that's meaningful and really benefits the whole industry, to be honest. Now, you mentioned a couple of things that I think are quite interesting. Obviously, you mentioned the importance of Safer Gambling to the global lottery industry. You are a company, as you've said as well, is active across a lot of different markets like the UK, Austria and Greece being some very important ones. How important would you say Safer Gambling is for the future sustainability of this global lottery sector? Well, I obviously feel it's completely integral to it. And we're seeing increasingly that it plays a big part in the awarding of licenses and tenders for lotteries. And I think that's a great thing. We've made it a core pillar of our business strategy and we're ambitious in becoming a global leader in responsible gaming. In fact, I think we're there punching our way, of course. But lotteries itself. is really a community with responsible gaming. I went to the European Lottery's Responsible Gaming Seminar for the first time last year in Dublin and was really encouraged by the very open attitude to sharing responsible gaming initiatives and how things are being done elsewhere. So it's really important to the sector as it is with the whole wider gaming industry. I think it's expected of us now that we're properly resourcing and investing in responsible gaming teams and technology. which is why it's now a feature of every international conference, including SBC. And I think it's great that we're convening those conversations in such large forums like that. So, yeah, I think it's completely integral and we're taking it really seriously. I know that being lottery led, we have a lower risk product vertical there, but we're not complacent. And you'll find us talking about the same themes and issues as the wider gaming industry. So we're taking it all into account. So you've talked a there about a lot of the initiatives that Orwin is doing and a lot of the ones you've seen from across the lottery sector, like these events you've attended and things like that. Is there anything that lot lotteries do, like Orwin for example, but also other companies that you think really leads the way in terms of safer gambling and responsible gaming, more so than maybe some other segments of the global gaming industry? Well, like lotteries are really embedded in that responsible play because they are inherently lower risk as a product type. But as a result of that, we've got some really good principles built in from day one that we apply across all our product verticals. I think in terms of what we are trying to do differently at Alwin is really one, be very, very open about our innovation and research. And we're pushing that in the coming months and investing in more research, but also look at new ways we can engage players. And so we launched our Play the Right Way campaign this month. And you might know that we have a partnership with McLaren and Formula One. And we wanted to use the sponsorship to communicate some really simple messages around setting limits, not chasing the wind, keeping calm. And I think that, you know, these can be considered quite simple messages, but if we don't say them, that being simple doesn't matter. And so we've launched that campaign. We've got episode one of our racing animations out already, a second one going today actually, and then episodes three and four later in the month, and you can find them on all one global channels. So we really wanted to use a different and creative way to communicate responsible gaming messages. I think as lotteries were really well placed to lead the way in that because we have such a broad player base. So we can reach a very wide segment of society. the behaviors they learn in our campaigns, can carry into wider gaming products they play with elsewhere. So I think we've actually got a responsibility to use the wide platform we have. And I think with responsible gambling, we've got a pretty hard job to do sometimes because responsible gaming campaigns can become wallpaper, all sorts of accusations that they're simply marketing, but we need to be more creative. We're committed to creating more interactive. responsible gaming content that isn't just a boilerplate and actually stimulates engagement with players. So that's sort of our focus at the minute. I'm reaching that broad audience through the lottery segment because so many people play lotteries in their lives, but maybe they also play casino and they play sports betting. So if we can get the behaviors driven through our lotteries platform, we'd like to see it have an impact elsewhere. So I think that's where we can make our mark. And like I say, sharing, I think that there shouldn't be a monopoly on knowledge and responsible gaming. We should all be collaborating on this because we want our players to be safe with us or if they play elsewhere. think that was a very interesting point you raised there about the sports sponsorship angle, really. I think, like you've said, the future of lot of these partnerships is definitely going to be more towards the responsible messaging and awareness of of protection and setting limits and things like that, like what you guys are doing with McLaren. Because obviously those partnerships are facing a lot of pressure from across the board. I just want to touch again on what you mentioned there, that lottery is obviously generally seen as a quite a low risk product, certainly in comparison to casino gaming and sports betting. Do you think that this, do think that its nature is something that is seen as lot more low risk, has given lotteries a kind of head start when it comes to safer gambling and responsibility? I think we have a head start because of the nature of the product, but we're a very broad business. We have lots of different products. And I think that because we have that grinding in lotteries and those learnings, we've carried it over elsewhere. We're certainly not judgmental about other types of gaming verticals. have customers playing lotteries, we've got customers playing in our casinos. We might have a head start, but we're definitely not complacent about what that means for us. So this, like I say, the same things the wider gaming industry is talking about, we are doing as well. So we have risk detection systems, we're using AI. At OPAP, they have the safety net algorithm, which was created by their own data scientists. So we take a lot of pride in investing to do more in responsible gaming. So while we might have a head start in terms of our main product, And I see a lot of ambition and lot of hard work. And actually I've been pretty impressed at how much time the lottery industry spends talking about responsible play. And given the reputation it might have as being a lower risk product. mentioned there, course, lottery lottery is call. I say is quite low risk. We're talking, know, that the draw just like numbers draws and things like that. They're obviously routine, they're set each week. There's. It's not like with sports fixtures where things can vary or with the casino games where there's a lot more accessibility. But we have seen the product range available in the lottery sector expand a lot over the past few years. We're seeing a lot more instant win games. Do think these have added a new dynamic to consider when it comes to player protection in lotteries? Do these products pose some new player protection challenges that the more traditional ticket and numbers draw games didn't? It certainly has increased the frequency with which you can play with our lottery businesses of course. As a business that already has a wider set of gaming verticals, we're well used to scaling up responsible gaming interventions in line with that. So obviously with those products in the mix, we're promoting deposit limits, taking breaks, all the things we do with our wider gaming offering. So again, to say responsible gaming has some basic principles that should be applied across all products, no matter what they are. But just to say that, know, lotteries want to innovate as well and offering those products are part of that. I think provided innovation is done in a responsible way and we abide by responsible product design, we should have the space to do that. But like I say, the principles are universal for responsible gaming. yeah, we've just got to ensure that the safeguards are there and that players know the tools that are online to support them if they want to play those other products too. I think that's a great point you make there, Nicole. Obviously, lotteries are well known for being more of a low risk vertical than a lot of other segments of gaming, but like others, they're always growing and expanding. So this is a point we're going to come back to just after we take a quick ad break. And so we've established that, if I say we've established it's obviously like we say quite well known that lotteries are for the most part like a lot more low risk than other forms of gaming. As you've mentioned as well on top of that loads of lottery companies, all of being a good example but many others as well from across the world are very active in pursuing player protection, pursuing lots of initiatives there, ensuring that responsible messaging is promoted through like your own just on your websites or via partnerships like McLaren and so on. So with this in mind, do think there are any practices around player protection that betting and gaming firms could learn from lotteries, you know, when it comes to encouraging responsible play, or I guess even enforcing it actually, because obviously players do sometimes need a nudge in the right direction, don't they? Yeah, for sure. So for me, it's less about what betting and gaming can... learn from us and more about are we creating the spaces for us to all have these conversations in a way that isn't competitive for want of a better word. So, you know, I came from the betting and gaming industry and worked a lot on the self-regulatory initiatives that came up through that. And it's a different industry today than it was. So while we have plenty to share with others as all in, I think that we can all learn from each other. We're all using quite similar tools across the board, working with a lot of the same partners. But what I've seen is that conversations with research prevention and treatment providers is pretty much part of daily life in a gaming company now. And I'm seeing that across the board. So yes, I think that there's plenty we can share as lotteries, especially in terms of those consumer campaigns and engaging with customers who... perhaps won't experience an issue with your product, but might experience it elsewhere playing higher risk games. I think if we all kind of take on that responsibility to promote responsible gaming messaging in a more interesting way, rather than as a tick box, that would be really, really great from my perspective. So I'm hoping this Play the Right Way campaign that we've just launched is our sort of starting point for that, and that we can come back and share some of our findings of what we find has stimulated. engagement with customers on these topics and if it's worked. then on this topic of sharing best practice and applying best practice, Alwyn is of course a multinational company. You've got presence in a lot of different markets, got experience of a lot of different markets. Have you noticed that some responsible gaming tools are better applied to some markets and some consumers than others? Are there some that know you find have more success and are engaged with better with consumers in one country than another? Yes, for sure. So while we try and create a common standards and framework so that the minimum of what we expect, we have to save some space for localization. We have so many different types of gaming that we offer that you've got to take into account what works for your retail customers versus online and the type of product as well. Also in terms of geographies, even with things like the Play the Right Way campaign, we do want to ensure that our Operating companies can localize it to relate to customers in that market in a way they understand. So I think that it's really important that we see a space for tailoring initiatives. So we can't do one size fits all. And while it would be really great to sort of have that single initiative that will work everywhere, we're really conscious that at the group level, we can focus on producing research and innovation that's relevant for everyone. but not every tool will work in the same way in the same market and even campaigns need to be tailored to. So we've got to keep the space there for local markets to do what they need to do for customers. But yes, every geography is unique and the regulations are unique and also what customers respond to and the tone. I know there's a lot of research around what works best in responsible gaming messaging, but culturally. some messages land very, very differently. So that's something that we're going to investigate further as we rule this campaign out. Now, I think you've already touched on what I'm about to ask next. You mentioned like the one size all approach and how that often doesn't always work, especially on a geographical basis. You need to tailor certain responsible gaming initiatives and practices to different markets and the needs of different consumers. I guess this also applies to product verticals, right? Because As I said, Alwyn is a lottery led business, but you do also have interest in other areas and casinos and in betting like OPP does betting, doesn't it? And then you have the casinos Austria segment. How do you tailor these responsible gaming approaches that I guess have been very much derived from lotteries, but how do you tailor those to your betting and casino interests as well? Well, as I've said, it's really about creating the sort of basic. principles and foundations and then allowing things to be tailored. So at a high level, we're all unified by the European Lottery's framework. But what we're doing at Olin is trying to create an Olin global safety standard really through our work and say of the things we all have in common in the market, how can we tailor that to retail or to our casinos? And you know, in terms of things like the campaign we're working on. Is there a way we can use it with customers in store? Can we show them on screens? Even at OPAP, they have responsible gaming days where they have stands at sponsored events and in stores where you can play little games and learn about responsible play. So customers in each of our environments respond differently. Online, you've got specific tools you don't have in retail and vice versa. So for example, even training has to be highly localized. training retail staff in stores across such a large network can be really, really challenging because you have, you know, the turnover of staff maybe in a shop who don't work every day. And how do you constantly sort of stimulate that educational process of our responsible gaming? So it's quite a big challenge to find something that sits every market and all our relationships that we either have with the retail network or with our online customers. But We're constantly trying to do things that work everywhere, of course, but every market is very different. We're always trying to find the best examples in each and roll it out. example, we have the Play Sponsible Academy in Austria, which is a huge academic conference where we invite people who are talking about the newest trends of responsible gaming. And we want to see us do similar things in other markets and really make it open to a broader set of stakeholders so we can teach others in the industry too. So it's really about taking the best of everywhere and trying to make it work. And I hope that by the end of this year, we have what amounts to a global framework and set of safety standards that we can be really proud of. We've already got so many great initiatives in our markets. I really want to showcase them and show people what Alvin is doing because, you know, we're really ambitious in this area and we want to be more involved in the conversation. I think your comments there have brought me nicely onto the next question of what you said about companies learning from each other and what you hope other companies can learn from you and lot of the initiatives you've introduced at Allwin. just to round us off, looking ahead, how do you think lotteries, bookmakers and casinos can facilitate a more collaborative approach to player protection and really ensure that best practice is shared to the highest possible degree here? So I think some of it's around accepting that we all want the same thing for players, which is to have better safety measures in place and that while there is a desire to show that you're the leader or you may be doing better and the pressure to publish metrics in particular has increased hugely, how can we do this meaningfully? How can we work together to say what are the meaningful things we can track? as an industry to show an improvement in responsible gaming? Because as we know, often we're not comparing like for like, and it's incredibly difficult to find things that are comparable. But more broadly, where can we have the conversations that we have the trade body level groups for various industries and various geographies, whether it's, you know, the European lotteries or European casinos. or many, many other groups, but where can we all come together? Industry conferences are great and we have the sustainability sections or the responsible gaming sections, but is there somewhere where heads of responsible gaming, those working in the field can come together and discuss these things in a constructive way? Maybe SBC can make this happen. see a lot of mixers with C levels and directors across these industry conferences, but can we get all of the people working in responsible gaming together because it's a particular type of person that works in this field and they're very, very motivated individuals with a lot of insights into what can be done to help players. So I would love to see a forum and that may well exist in some form where we can all have those conversations and share in a way that's constructive rather than maybe competitive and It's great to see people wanting to compete in this area, but we all want exactly the same thing, which is to have measures which work or tested and are credible and that any regulation that comes forward off the back of it is based on evidence. So I'd love to see that happen. think that's an excellent point for us to leave this on. think, yeah. Discussion and conversation is what is really going to drive this forward and this is a topic that is particularly crucial at the moment with lots of regulatory reviews going on across all segments of game embedding, lotteries, casinos, across loads of different markets and player protection is at the forefront of that for everyone involved. So yeah, I think you're absolutely spot on there with saying we need to talk about this and make sure that we're all doing the same thing, have the same goal. And of course, this is going to be discussed at your panel at Lisbon. I'd encourage all of our listeners to go and check that out and hear more from Nicole and the other panellists on this area. So, Nicole, thanks so much for taking the time to speak to us on today's iGaming Daily and looking forward to seeing you in Lisbon. Great. Thanks very much for having me.