iGaming Daily

Ted Menmuir (00:01.166)
Another polemic month ends for the Betts regime.

as the Senate in Brazil sanctions a federal bill on gambling advertising laws to progress the Chamber of Deputies. A forthcoming vote will determine whether online gambling advertising in Brazil should be governed by a separate framework aimed at addressing political concerns around sports integrity, youth protections and excessive exposures. Elsewhere, Secretariat of President Benning, the SBA, has issued its first suspensions targeting three operators deemed non-compliant with the requirements of technology ordinances.

I'm Ted Memwe and this is the IG iGamingDaily podcast brought to you by Optimove the number one global CRM solution. me today we have Ricardo Arceis editor of SBC.

I am Ted Memwe and this is the iGaming Daily brought to you by Optimu, the number one CRM and marketing solution for the global gambling industry. Joining me today we have Ricardo Assis, editor of SBC Notícias Brasil.

Ricardo Assis (01:13.346)
Hey Ted, nice to be here and talk about this important week because a lot can change in the next few days or few months so we'd have to wait and see a little bit but it was a complicated week for us.

Ted Menmuir (01:15.494)
You

Ted Menmuir (01:24.902)
Indeed.

Indeed and alongside Ricardo is Elisa Marcante, journalist of SBC News Brasil. Elisa how you doing? I was... And joining Ricardo is business journalist for SBC News Brasil, Elisa Marcante. How you doing Elisa?

Elisa Marcante (01:51.694)
Hi Ted, I'm okay. All right, all good for now. Thank you, I'm really happy to be here.

Ted Menmuir (01:54.662)
I'm going to now.

Ted Menmuir (02:00.806)
Well intro over and I'm glad to be joined by this super team that really provided like really breaking on the ground developments in the Brazilian market and Ricardo let me kick off with you and it's been another week of frantic activity and polemics for the the online gaming marketplace so just quickly run me through what's been going down

Ricardo Assis (02:25.108)
So last week on Wednesday we had the Commission of Sports in the Senate discussing the... Sorry, I'll start again. So last week on Wednesday we had the Commission of Sports in the Senate discussing a bill that's aimed to...

to put some restrictions in the advertising market of bats here in Brazil and this was approved in the commission and in the same day

It went to the Senate and it was already approved by the Senate in the same day. It was really, really quick and it surprised me and surprised a lot of people here in Brazil because we expected it to take a little bit longer and to have a little bit more discussion on it and it passed on full. it is... the author is Stevenson Valentim. He's a senator from PSDB here in Brazil.

Ted Menmuir (03:05.753)
Yup.

Ricardo Assis (03:25.422)
And it is the text that was approved, it was in the form of a subisitutive presented by the rapporteur Carlos Portinho and it did some changes because Stevenson aimed to ban all types of advertisement it was a full ban and Portinho changed it it's still very strict, it still changed a lot like now if it's approved in this format

influencers, athletes, media personalities or public authorities will not be able to be part in this kind of advertisements on television, on any type of media.

Ted Menmuir (04:11.928)
And going back to this, it was approved at pace, instantly, pretty much. But why does the Senate believe that a separate bill is required to govern gambling advertising?

Ricardo Assis (04:26.231)
Sorry, can you repeat? Again, I was... I clicked on my phone and it started playing music at the time. Sorry.

Ted Menmuir (04:35.494)
Ricardo, this was packed pretty unanimously and why does the Senate believe that separate bill is needed to govern gambling advertising in Brazil?

Ricardo Assis (04:52.693)
Well, they say that gambling should be treated the same way as alcohol and cigarettes is treated here in Brazil with a separate regime, strict rules and some... They say that this... I'll put it again.

According to the Senate, they believe that gambling should be treated the same way that alcohol and cigarettes is treated here in Brazil, so they are putting similar restrictions in that sense. That is their allegation, but on top of that, there's a huge pressure from media, from...

from other branches like industries, banks especially that see gambling as an activity that can take off some revenue from them. there's a lot of lobby against gambling here in Brazil from this kind of industries.

Ted Menmuir (05:46.84)
And like I said, who are kind of the stakeholders in governing advertising in Brazil? And what are they saying for having a separate code just for gambling advertising? Is that excessive?

And Elisa, who are the stakeholders in governing advertising in Brazil? And do they view as a separate bill as excessive?

Elisa Marcante (06:13.914)
Yeah, I think so. I think we have some actions that can really help. I talked even to a lawyer, Udo Selkman. He's the head of gambling and crypto at Bichara and Mota Divogados. And we were talking about this and he mentioned that some restrictions are good, can help the market. But when we have a lot of restrictions, this can...

create this could create a legal uncertainty and also discourage investment in the industry so we have was mentioned this sorry no no i'm measured no i don't think so like they they have this

Ricardo Assis (07:03.565)
Measure? Measure?

Ted Menmuir (07:08.032)
Modification.

Elisa Marcante (07:12.634)
It's not action, but like this. Just let me... I don't know if it's... No, like this restrictive this measure of...

Ted Menmuir (07:16.612)
recommendation.

Ricardo Assis (07:20.397)
You're saying about Konar? What are you?

Elisa Marcante (07:30.618)
You

Ricardo Assis (07:31.479)
this restrictive measure I think.

Ted Menmuir (07:31.686)
Peace.

Elisa Marcante (07:35.192)
maybe restricted measure. So, sorry. have the, have the, Parchin was mentioned during a CPI, think like, no, sorry, during the meetings with the sports committee. And in this document, the bill, they have this restricted measure.

Ricardo Assis (07:37.889)
Yeah.

No worries.

Ted Menmuir (08:04.251)
Mm-hmm.

Elisa Marcante (08:05.348)
saying that users can choose if they want to receive advertising from the market or not. Like there's an option to turn it on or turn it off. And this is a good thing. Like it's a good action from the government. But when you have so many restrictions, this actually make the sports book

Ted Menmuir (08:11.462)
Sure.

Elisa Marcante (08:32.25)
They cannot communicate with the public. They cannot educate. They cannot show people how the industry works because most of people, most of Brazilians, they don't understand how the industry works. They don't understand the difference between legal sports book and unlicensed one. So I even met a girl last week.

And we were talking about this because she asked me what I do. And I told her I'm a journalist for the industry. And she was, I used to promote those websites in 2023. And she said she doesn't promote them anymore, but she still plays in those websites. And she said she gets bonuses from

Ted Menmuir (09:16.836)
Yeah.

Elisa Marcante (09:31.468)
other people deposit, when they deposit money from her link, she gets bonus, bonuses to play in this website. And I told her like, this is illegal because licensed sports books don't promote themselves like this. And she was like, that's okay. It's their problem, not mine. And she laughed. So people don't understand how the industry works here.

they don't have an.

Ted Menmuir (10:01.154)
Okay, that's very interesting. So Ricardo, I'm to go back to you. How do you think that the Senate and the chambers are going to balance out the economic interests of the market in terms of its media and sponsorships with the reality of actually protecting the consumer? Do you think they have any clarity on where they're going with this bill?

Ricardo Assis (10:25.937)
I don't think so. I don't think they have the required clarity at least because if so they would not have passed in this format. I think some restrictions are necessary like Elisa pointed out there are some things in this bill that are important but there are some things like we are a really immature market we are just operating legally regulated for less than six months and because of this it's really complicated to

Ted Menmuir (10:52.399)
Sure.

Ricardo Assis (10:55.831)
to put some really restrict measurements on these operators because this is the time that they have to create brand awareness because they paid for the license. They should be allowed to create this awareness, to create their name here in the market. So it's complicated to justify that and this creates a lot of illegal...

Ted Menmuir (11:07.951)
Yeah.

Ricardo Assis (11:18.519)
kind of illegal uncertainty to these operators because they think if they change this what else they can change. So we are in the beginning of the regulatory cycle and we already changed so much. So we need to be careful or the industry will back off because it's complicated to operate in a market that so many can change in a short period of time.

But I think in this format the bill will not pass in the Chamber of Deputies. I believe they will change it a lot because there are some things... Sorry.

Ted Menmuir (11:51.131)
So.

Yeah, so okay, this goes to my final question. now it's got the Senate backing, it's going to the Chamber of Deputies, but it's a period of hard bargaining. Do you think that this bill passes without any modifications? And does it appease any sensitivities?

Ricardo Assis (12:12.01)
I think it will not pass in this format, it will be changed a little bit at least. think regarding some... At least the point that I think will change more is regarding the static banners in stadiums because this affects a lot of the clubs here in Brazil, especially the smaller clubs because this is a stream of revenue that's really important to them.

and you are restricting it and it will affect the... I'll start again. I think... Sorry guys. I think at least... I think at least in the...

Ted Menmuir (12:51.814)
because it's totally fine, man.

Ricardo Assis (12:58.432)
The static banner in stadiums, this will not pass, at least in this format, because this will affect a lot of the football clubs in Brazil, especially the smaller ones, because this is a really big stream of revenue for them. I think also...

it will be really difficult to put some restrictions like they are trying to do regarding social media, like Portinho said that all the things that he wants to put in radio and television should be applied in Instagram and other social media, so with time slots available to publish some content, and this is not possible to do there. I think they do not understand how social media works in a sense, because...

Ted Menmuir (13:40.112)
Yeah.

No! Okay.

Ricardo Assis (13:44.429)
It's something that stays there so they can publish in some time slot but it stays there so a person can see it other times So I believe it will change a lot and I believe it will not be something that will be passed on quickly Sorry, it will not go on as quick as it happened with the... Within the Senate. Yeah, I think the time slot for this

Ted Menmuir (13:48.614)
Alright, shoot.

Ted Menmuir (14:08.464)
So tough, tough, tough bargaining coming ahead. Yeah.

Ricardo Assis (14:13.004)
the time slot for this negotiation is going to be way way higher because I don't think it's going to be any definition this year I think it's something for the next year

Ted Menmuir (14:23.194)
Thank you. Into the break.

And now, break time.

Ricardo Assis (14:35.67)
Sorry, I've talked a lot, guys.

Ted Menmuir (14:37.272)
No, no, no, no guys, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine

Elisa Marcante (14:41.818)
because we have a lot of things to talk about.

Ted Menmuir (14:43.526)
you

Ricardo Assis (14:44.46)
You

Ted Menmuir (14:50.022)
I'll take him because I've lost my breath.

Ricardo Assis (14:54.636)
I'm just gonna open here the list because a lot can change in a few minutes here in Brazil.

Elisa Marcante (14:58.176)
Just to be sure.

Ted Menmuir (14:59.43)
Okay.

Okay, and uh Okay, and we're back and guys we're now going to focus on the SBA and its recent suspensions and Elisa I'm going to turn to you and How

Are you surprised that it's taken such an approach by the Secretariat to issue these suspensions so early in the market?

Elisa Marcante (15:36.986)
I don't think it's early. I think for me they are doing their job. We have the regulated market since January and it's been a few months now and people...

the operators have to be in compliance with all the requirements from the legislation to operate in Brazil. So I don't think it's early. I think they are doing the right thing. I just have two things to like to opinions from this. One of this is about the...

I don't think they need to publish like 10 different lists in two days. I think SPI should have like a system where they can publish this.

Ted Menmuir (16:24.271)
I did.

Ted Menmuir (16:34.17)
Mm-hmm.

Elisa Marcante (16:35.392)
suspended brands this this first document saying these brands has they have to to improve a thing a few things to continue operating Brazil and then after I don't know a month a week or like a period of time they share a new document with like the the companies now they are okay with the the Disrequirement or if they're not but to give some time to the brands and to the people because we have this

huge because we have this article published on Friday when they published the list and we talked to the representative from SPI. They confirmed the list, they confirmed the brands and we have one company reached out to us saying that they were there by mistake.

Ted Menmuir (17:14.694)
Peace.

Elisa Marcante (17:29.046)
So I don't think this can happen. Like they put some branding by mistake in the list and I think they should have like to give some more time. So we don't have like one list coming after another one in just like a few minutes or like half an hour. I think this is the only thing they should like improve a bit but I think it's a good thing. I think they are doing their job.

Ted Menmuir (17:53.698)
Ricardo

Ricardo Assis (17:53.876)
Yeah, and

This kind of miscommunication cannot happen. This is something that can damage the reputation of a brand. I believe that SPA is going to learn about what happened in this instance and not repeat in this way because they uploaded the listing like three times in the spawn of 30 minutes on Friday. So it was kind of insane.

Ted Menmuir (18:08.622)
Yup.

Elisa Marcante (18:19.788)
on Friday.

Ted Menmuir (18:25.296)
Well, it certainly makes your job a lot tougher. But let's look at the SBA. does it need such a... Do you think that this... It's always said day one compliance since the launch of the Brazil Bets Market. But is that feasible in a market where it's launched 100 licenses and it oversees 100 operator brands? Has it been enough more than it can chew?

Ricardo Assis (18:54.057)
I believe so because people say that we have some sources that say that they are trying to get more people to SPA because they are a little bit understaffed because as you said it's really high number of companies and a lot of things that they have to check on a regular basis. So as you said it's complicated, it's new market and the volume of information that they require to

Ted Menmuir (19:03.526)
Mm.

Ricardo Assis (19:23.981)
to tackle is huge. I think they are doing a good job. It's really difficult. It's something that's new for everyone.

I think they are doing what they can, but there are some points that they can improve, of course, everyone can improve in everything, I believe in life, but I think the main problem is, as you said, the volume of content that they need to check on regular basis. It's more than 70 brands and more than 170 companies. Sorry, it's 70 companies and...

Ted Menmuir (19:58.318)
Yeah.

Ricardo Assis (20:03.117)
170 brands, so it's a really really big number so it's really complicated for them to tackle this it's a huge volume

Ted Menmuir (20:05.083)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Menmuir (20:20.494)
Elisa, you think that the operator, mean, so the regulator is finding out who the bad actors are in the market and the operators that can't, that aren't up to scratch, that cannot compete, that aren't technically good enough?

Elisa Marcante (20:43.79)
I think so. think it's now it's the moment to check who wants to stay here and to do the right thing and who doesn't want to operate in a legal way. So I think this first year maybe or this first five years maybe, I don't know, I'm not specialist on this, but like this first year I can say that. I think it's the time like where the...

it's the time to check which companies really want to operate in Brazil. Because we can see from now, it's going to be very restrictive. It's going to have a lot of... The government wants to compare to other markets, but we cannot compare Brazil to UK because Brazil is a completely different market.

Ted Menmuir (21:37.574)
Mm-hmm.

Elisa Marcante (21:38.412)
not just from the culture, but like it's new market. UK it's already mature market. So we cannot compare this. So I think with all of these things happening now, it's the time to, the companies will decide like if we stay here in Brazil or if we leave now, know.

Ted Menmuir (22:04.39)
Sure and okay guys my final question to both of you, you're covering on the ground developments, you're close to the industry and it's been the first half of Brazil's first year in action. Give me your marks, mean how would you evaluate the market please? Ricardo I'll begin with you.

Ricardo Assis (22:26.187)
It's been kind of chaotic as expected because a lot of things has changed Sorry, start again It's been a little bit chaotic. I think everyone is trying to do their best I think SBA is doing a good job regulating it, but there are some points they need to improve and I think that after six months we are already seeing

The direction that the market will go in the next years, I believe we are going to see by the end of this year and by the next year a lot of mergers and acquisitions because the cost to operate in the Brazilian market is really high. We have a lot of taxes, we have the 12 % tax on GDR that restricts even further. We have the...

Ted Menmuir (23:06.788)
Mm-hmm.

Ricardo Assis (23:18.239)
We have the prohibition of welcome bonuses. That was a great weapon for the operators to gather new customers.

the operators are seeing that it's a really profitable market but maybe it is not a market that can have 100 players, 100 big operators because it's not as big. So I think this is the time that the operators are going to consolidate themselves and I think by the end of these five years we're going to see a really big drop in the number of brands because it's a market that's really

Ted Menmuir (23:42.288)
Sure.

sure.

Ricardo Assis (23:57.245)
really competitive and really expensive to operate as well.

Ted Menmuir (24:04.088)
or what grade? B, B plus, B. And it is a final word from you.

Elisa Marcante (24:14.318)
I think we are like going to the right path. There are some things that I don't agree, but I think the government is doing a great job. I think SPI did the right thing, suspended those brands. And we, think the whole industry need to think about...

Just one second. I think the industry needs, like all the parts involved need to work together to promote a health environment, to promote responsive gambling, and also to promote, to elevate the revenue, the Brazilian revenue. So there are a lot of good things coming with this new market here.

And although we still have a strong opposite side in the in S &H for the online betting industry and even for the land-based casinos, I think we are going to the right path. I'm very optimist. Is that right? I'm very optimistic with the whole situation. And yeah, I think that's it.

Ted Menmuir (25:31.526)
Yeah, I'm just like, yes.

Ted Menmuir (25:40.442)
Well guys, Ricardo and Elisa, you are top journalists and to our audiences, you know where to find out the latest news for Brazil developments at SBC Noticias Brazil. Thank you and goodbye.

Elisa Marcante (25:52.122)
Thank you.