iGaming Daily

00:00
Good morning and welcome to the iGaming Daily brought to you by OptiMove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market. We've got a special episode today. We're joined by Adam Perfect, the head of commercial at the PDC, following up from our episode 501 where we spoke to Bet MGM about their thriving partnership with Dart. Adam, thanks ever so much for joining us. Yeah, how are you? How are things at the PDC? Obviously,

00:26
Very busy, busy all year round really, but very busy at the moment, right? Yeah, I'm good. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. it's, we're in the thick of our Premier League, you know, and we are building up to the 02 and then many other events off the back of that. So yeah, always busy times, but good and some good announcements, some good stuff we can talk about. Nice, nice. And yeah, we're in the betting events business. So understand fully how the run up to the events ages you. really takes years off. It's a...

00:55
Hectic period. I guess that O2 event is one that you really pinpoint on the calendar. It's a major one. Yeah, it's fantastic. You know, that's essentially what the 16 weeks before that is counting down to to find the winner of the Premier League in front of 14,000 fans. We sold out completely for the first time last year, which is just incredible. You stand in there and you look at look right to the back and you think this is amazing for for Darts. So great atmosphere, great event. And yeah, it brings together a lot of hard work from ourselves, but MGM and obviously the players more importantly themselves.

01:25
Nice, nice. And yeah, I mean, you guys have really nailed it down. The secret sauce to putting bums on seats. You have nailed it. Like, I know a lot of events, they talk about darts in an enviable way and the PDCs, because you just sell out every single time, right? Yeah, it's been a fantastic few years. know, there's a few things I'm sure we'll come on to today in terms of how that journey's happened.

01:50
You know, the fact that we are an entertainment sport, you know, we tap into that. We can appeal to a broad audience of fans. You know, and everyone just wants to be a part of the events, you the atmosphere that's been created by ourselves, our partners, broadcast partners. You know, people just want to be a part of it and it's our job to make sure we keep delivering that. Nice. And how much pride does that give you to look around, obviously, to see the seats are filled, but when you look around the arenas that you go to,

02:16
It's quite a diverse audience and I think it's only diversified further. It's only diversified more in recent years. It continues to diversify. Yeah, that must give you immense pride. Absolutely. Yeah. go to, as I say, the O2. We go to Madison Square Garden in New York. We go to Alexandra Palace this year for 20 days over the Christmas period and everyone turns up every day and every session, whether it's afternoon or evening. It's the biggest Christmas party in the country.

02:45
It's incredible pride. I think, your point, the diverse audience, people coming along to want to be a part of it. It's a bucket list event. It appeals to a broader audience. There's some sports where you would go along if you follow the team or the sport, whereas ours is an entertainment offering and it's our job to capture, to continue capturing that wider audience and tell the stories of the players and everything around the events. Yeah. I think you do a brilliant job of doing that.

03:12
We had BetMGM on a few episodes back, episode 501. They spoke glowingly about the partnership with the Premier League and having their brand kind of own that commercial deal. They really take lead on that. And obviously, Paddy Power are the PDC sponsor as well. They do a brilliant job in terms of the activations and the charitable donations. Why are those partnerships so well suited to those tournaments and why do they do so well? Yeah, I heard them.

03:42
Gethin's interview and I think he made a great point about the ownership part first off. There aren't that many opportunities within sports to fully own a tournament and especially in that case, something that is 17 weeks long across 17 different venues, 17 different cities to provide that scale physically and touch that many people, over 150,000 people attending, but then also...

04:07
broadcast reach that we get week in, week out and that regularity of viewership and the regularity of people following the event week on week, know, that there's that fact that they can tap into. I think there's also a great fit more generally between Darts and the betting brands. You know, we have fast paced games. There's a lot of games, you know, so in terms of their markets, it fits well there. And again, they are again in Bet MGM's case. And I know you mentioned Paddy Power in their case.

04:35
They are entertainment brands as well as that. And we really do tap into that. That's what we look to create an entertaining show and entertaining event. And the brands like BetMGM really help to tap into that and utilise all the various touch points from physical to kind of digital as well. Yeah. It's a great point with the markets. I never really thought of that, but you know, if I'm watching darts over Christmas, I might just chuck a tenner on a nine dart finish or back the over on the 180s.

05:03
And because those are such big moments in the game, it really elevates those markets. guess that comes down to the job you do in hyping those moments, I guess. Yeah. And I think a good example, and Gethin mentioned it the other week on the interview, in terms of what you can do around those big moments, how you amplify them. Obviously we do that ourselves through digital channels and at the event,

05:28
something like the nine dart bonus, which Paddy Power did for the World Championship, which I'm sure will come onto. then the gold darts that are delivered to the players for the Premier League for every nine darts. It gets the players talking, gets the fans talking, and ultimately creates more conversation around those big moments. And it creates this social moment too. You put it on social media and it gets seen and escalated and escalated more and more eyes on it. And I did want to ask you about the Paddy Power.

05:54
work they do with charities over the PDCs. Some really fantastic initiatives, not just in terms of the charitable donations, but the way they really integrate them into the sport and make them part of the game. And I think that's the key, the key part there. Obviously, Paddy Power do a fantastic job activating their sponsorship of the World Arts Championship and have done now for two years and have big plans to continue that. And back to the previous point, obviously they're

06:21
They're a brand play. They focus on their brand. They're entertaining aspect, which fits really well with darts. know, as I say, we obviously it's a serious sport, but there are fun elements to it. You know, the crowd enjoy themselves. So there's a real good synergy there to tap into, that. yeah, for Paddy Powell there, charitable campaign with Prostate Cancer UK. You know, we had conversation with them a couple of years ago and obviously off the back of that, they've done a great job integrating that charitable partnership into all aspects of the sponsorship and the inventory where

06:51
They've donated now over a million pounds for two years running. First year is a thousand pounds for every 180, which was just, topped it up to get to that total. And then this year they had the nine dollar bonus, was an 180,000 additional donation for every nine data, 60,000 to the players, 60,000 to charity and 60,000 to a lucky fan in the audience, which was a great bonus for them as well. But again, to the point of building that across all touch points.

07:21
players are excited, the fans are excited, the charity wins. So they do a great job with that. then also integrating that charitable aspect into all other elements of the partnership. They have an activations area within the fan village. They kind of take that over, but every point in there has a donation touch point. And they also worked hard on the partnership with Sky Sports to ultimately promote the charitable aspects. There's obviously limitations in what they can do.

07:48
their brand, but they really got behind the partnership from a charity point of view and promoting, in this case, people to take the prostate cancer risk checker to check your risk of potential prostate cancer. And they were hitting the targets of how many men they wanted to check that. So they did a great job with that and ultimately bringing back to that point of ultimately trying to save lives, which is a commendable effort. for sure. And another aspect of it that you kind of miss out that was also

08:17
invested was, you know, I was watching at home and I was, I was pretty invested because it was quite a fun activation because you were like, you know, I want to see the camera pan round to some guy that's three beers deep and he's just found out that he's, he's won a lot of money because Luke Humphrey's hit a nine data. It was a, and my whole family was, you know, sometimes there'd be 50 % watching when those moments happened, they fully dialed in because it was so fun. was such a good

08:43
activation to really get everyone invested. yeah, massive credit to Sky and Paddy Power and you guys too for doing that because it was a really good way to boost fan engagement. Yeah, we went around a lot of ways of making sure that was all done correctly and there's some great stories in terms of how the first winner was Grandad bought him the ticket and some great stories. yeah, they really landed that very well.

09:08
One of the challenges in terms of activations, obviously the biggest star in darts right now is Luke Littler. Just, you know, the trajectory of him is phenomenal. He's tapping into so many different audiences. He's playing EAFC online, he's on streaming, he's really becoming quite the star and helping you tap into a new demographic of fans as well, I think. But he is, how old is he now? He's 18 now.

09:37
Yeah, he was obviously younger than that when he played in the previous two events. yeah. He's 18 now, right? So that presents challenges in terms of marketing for your principal partner, whether it be BetMGM or whether it be Paddy Power. Yeah. Could you just talk more about that and how you kind of navigate that? Yeah. So it was a new challenge for us in terms of someone as high profile as him, you know, it's not something new in general, you know, obviously we have players from our youth and development systems who've played in these events before and we're very, you know, aware and

10:06
work with our betting partners to make sure they don't wear the brand's logo, for example. But in terms of going deeper than that, because the success Luke was having across everything and ideally they'd have utilised his image everywhere and all that kind of stuff. we work closely with the brands and we've done this across all of our events. We don't just work with those two brands you mentioned. We work with a lot of brands in the sector across the year. And it was a key point and still is a key point in terms of making sure they're happy from a legal perspective.

10:36
what we do across the activation. Now we've got a pretty good template. Examples being, they can't use imagery specifically of him on his own across their channels. A good example from the World Championship was the nine-dart bonus we've been discussing. That couldn't come from Paddy Power. Our partners at Village Hotel stepped in for that kind of moment. Surprisingly, Luke didn't hit a nine-dart to Luke Littler at that tournament, but they were ready for that moment to capitalize on that.

11:05
know, it's about being flexible and working with them on that. you know, the experience is obviously building from both sides of that. That's really interesting. guess it underlines the importance of collaboration with partners and partners being invested in getting the most out of the deals and stuff. So yeah, that's really interesting. And I guess when he becomes of age, I guess the commercial value of a potential betting deal escalates significantly if he stays on course as he should do. Yeah.

11:33
Yeah, potentially, you know, he's obviously got his own commercial team. You know, we work commercially from the PDC, kind of representing the events and a kind of wider range of partners throughout the year. But he's not doing too bad anyway, to be fair. You know, he's obviously very prevalent in a lot of other markets, know, gaming, etc. And he's doing OK. Yeah. Before we go to a little break, I did want to ask you about that. he does tap into an ecosystem that I think...

12:00
not many darts players have previously tapped into. see him with some of the most influential streamers across social media. He's got a good presence. He's very engaging. How do you tap into that off the back of him? Have it being such a star in those ecosystems? I think he naturally does bring around a new audience to the sport. He's very strong within that kind of gaming sector and then the younger audience. He has naturally brought in that kind of

12:30
tapped into that mainstream media and that mainstream interest around the events, that proven by all the finals that he's been in, the kind of mainstream media that have been on site at these events has just been beyond anything that we've ever seen prior to these last two years. So it is strong there. Obviously it's our job as the PDC and our digital team prior to even the last two years with Luke's success have already been kind of looking into that. Obviously it's our job to...

12:58
grow our audience and future proof and appeal to the younger audience. And, you know, they've been working with influencers and YouTube stars on content in darts because, you know, they actually, there's a good following anyway. you know, our digital audiences have really grown well in that space. So yeah, I think that's something that we want to continue to tap into. And I think that applies to all players across the sport.

13:26
from Luke himself to the other players at the top end of the game. Yeah, no doubt. The sport as a whole is very friendly to social content and having TikTokers play darts. I know you do a great job when you have influencers on the stage or celebrities on the stage before and we get to see a bullseye challenge or a three dart challenge. I think that's really good content and certainly boosts fan engagement and the reach of the sport.

13:54
We're going to take a quick break and when we come back we will continue talking Darts. Thanks again for joining us Adam. Let's, you briefly mentioned it before but it was something that Bet MGM mentioned as well. The power of Sky Sports, the power of Sky Sports News and also in the modern world the power of those Sky Sports socials. Darts has had a really strong long collaboration with Sky. How significant is this to continuing to make

14:24
sport a mainstay around Christmas and to boost the Premier League every Thursday night. Yeah. To start off, think Sky have been an incredible partner for the PDC right back from the very start of the PDC and the first World Championship in 1994. They've helped build the sport to where it is today. We couldn't have done it without them. They continue to push the boundaries and push that in terms of the sport, the profile, and building the events themselves.

14:53
We also work with our other broadcast partners. You know, we have events on ITV and other events that we produce ourselves around the world. you know, it's I think the interest levels and the Sky Sports angle, the key there is the fact that, you know, we are the second most watched sport on their channels throughout the year after football, you know, and that proven out more than anything about the World Championship final two years ago being the most ever watched non football event in Sky Sports history, you know, which is something that, you know, again,

15:23
cumulatively throughout the year, expect that to be the case, but there've been some very big events, you know, Sky Sports over the years. So for us to do that just shows that kind of breadth of the audience and, you know, what they do, as you say, in terms of building the profile of the events across all of their platforms, know, digital as well and on demand, just helps to elevate the events for, you know, our sponsors and also the players themselves, you building their profile.

15:49
building the characters with the walk-ons that they helped us implement in the first case, just helped build everything around the sport and the events themselves. Yeah, 100%. I remember reading that fact, by the way, after the finals, and I had to read it five or six times because it's just unbelievable, really. But you mentioned the partnership with ITV as well. I think something a lot of other sports...

16:16
I'm big boxing fan and I remember watching Tyson Fury come up on Channel 5 and I think it goes under the radar just how much that helped build Tyson Fury's profile that we all know today because he was on free to air TV. How big is it for you to have that presence on ATV and to be on terrestrial telly like that? Yeah, it's a big part of our strategy. As I keep mentioning, the broad breadth of the audience and it creates different...

16:44
appeals and different profiles for the events, you know, because we have, you know, a lot of events throughout the year, you know, you kind of they all need to have their own home. And obviously it just appeals that that slightly different audience and, you know, people who may not be able to get a Sky Sports subscription, you know, maybe, you know, can consume those events on ITV and then around the Sky Sports events, you know, will will promote them across our digital channels, our YouTube channel and with the ultimate goal of, you know, them potentially subscribing and consuming all of our events. So it's

17:13
Yeah, it's a very important part of our strategy. Yeah, I agree. think it's a brilliant thing that you do. It really provides a commercial boost and gets more eyes on the sport. I did want to ask you a little bit about boxing, forgive the kind of change in pace, but we've seen boxing shift completely really. There are domestic shows, but largely the British boxing is taking place in the Middle East now.

17:40
Saudi Arabia and other regions, mainly Saudi Arabia. What have you made of this shift? I mean, the boxing team obviously have a strong link specifically with Saudi Arabia. I think in this case you're referring to an obviously big one night shows out there, which obviously has huge commercial benefits for everyone and specifically for the fighters in their case. I think in our case it's different and I'm presuming where this question was leading, but you know, obviously our

18:08
Our shows are very different because they are built around the atmosphere, having a full crowd, you know, for people there wanting to attend, but also people watching from home want to see a great atmosphere and a buzz around the event. people, events are synonymous with a certain location. You you're speaking to Gethin the other week and in terms of that, you know, knowing that we'll be back in Cardiff, we're back in Sheffield, we're back in Manchester. Every year people want to attend, they can put it in the diary. You know, that's a very important part of that and having that regular base.

18:38
We do have our, the game globally of darts is massive for us. And we do have our kind of global affiliate tours, which build the pathways of people to play. But then in terms of staging events, we have our world series of darts, which takes the flavor of those big UK European events to new markets, new growing markets. We go to New York, as I mentioned, Copenhagen, Poland, Australia, New Zealand, and in the Middle East, we currently go to Bahrain.

19:04
That is giving that, you know, it's a two day event in those locations to try and, you know, build that footprint and give the experience to those fans who may not be able to go to, to, to Ali Pali or to one of the Premier League nights. does that being synonymous with, with certain places, does that mean we're unlikely to see while the Premier League exists in the way it does, as the beautiful road show that it is, we're unlikely to see the PDCs, the world championships ever move from Ali Pali? Yeah. I mean, we're always reviewing the location, but I think,

19:34
terms of something that is synonymous with London, it's synonymous with being at the Christmas in the UK and London. I don't think, yeah, no, I think that's unlikely. put it that way. it makes sense to me because even though I'm the other end of the country, if I was going to go to the World Championships, wouldn't want to go at the Co-op Live or the AO Arena. would want to go to the World Championships at Ali Pali. That's the allure for sure.

20:02
You read my mind by the way, you saw where the question was going there. Yeah. And just to jump in Joe, sorry, there's obviously other logistical considerations. know, Sky Sports are obviously a UK broadcaster. So for 20 days, they wouldn't necessarily want to chip everyone out to, you know, the Middle East to do something like that. The fans have to travel. have to look at our core markets. you know, there's, there's a lot of other things to consider there than just the one night show that you might have in boxing. That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. And just two more really quickly from me, cause we are running out of time, but

20:31
When I spoke to Gethin a few weeks ago, he said that you are just a star away from the sport elevating in a new audience. know, we pinpointed the US as one where a US breakthrough star would really take the sport to a new level in that region, in that market amongst those fans. Obviously that falls on you when that star is born in some way to really pitch them up and elevate them. Do you agree with that sentiment that, you know, when you get a star in a new region,

21:01
the footprint, that's the one that can get you to tap into that market. Yeah, obviously that would be fantastic. I think all we can control is the controllables in terms of putting the pathways in place. As I kind of mentioned earlier, we have our global affiliate tours in the US. We have that and trying to provide pathways, improving those pathways, making them more rewarding, obviously financially for the players and ultimately making it easier for them to succeed and become full-time dark players. that's

21:30
It's a long journey. It's a gradual journey that we have to go on, you know, in these regions. And obviously, specifically in the US, it's very difficult to break through given the volume of sports out there. you know, the growth of our event in Madison Square Garden, the number of entries that the guys receiving at their events, you know, it's obviously a huge participation sport out there. That's point one. Then trying to break through in kind of the broadcast side is another point. But the growth is on the right trajectory. And all we can hope is that, you know, as you said, that a big star does come through.

21:59
we just have to put everything in place for that to hopefully happen. Nice, nice. And you mentioned the 02 when you looked around the 02, it was a bit of a pinch me moment. Madison Square Garden must have been pretty or inspiring as well. Yeah, it's a great when we go there. We're actually in the theatre at Madison Square Garden. So we've sold out for Saturday night last year for the first time. So it's great to go to places like that and actually see how it captures the local imagination. You know, the media, we've been going to NFL teams, know, they want to meet the players.

22:28
taking them on big TV, YouTube shows. it's a great experience for the players, but also just shows where Darts is on the map now. Nice. Brilliant. And just the final question to close the show. If could ask you to channel your inner Barry Hearn as we approach the final part of Squeaky Bum Time in the Premier League and then we head into the PDCs in December. What's in store for Darts fans in the second half of this year?

22:56
Yeah, it's a very exciting time from the players. There's a great rivalry being created at the top end of the sport and the depth of quality has really improved. people talk about Luke Humphries and Luke Littler and their great rivalry, which is certainly one point, anybody can beat anybody on their day and I think that's testament to the growing depth of the game. But there's some great narratives for the rest of the year. Can Luke Littler defend his Premier League title? Can Luke Humphries then defend the World Match play-in?

23:26
July and then, you know, how will it all pan out in our events building up to the World Darts Championship? know, Luke Littler defending his title. How's that going to pan out? You know, there's obviously a lot of other players who would like to, you know, who are turning the corner, improving and form going prices is made his way into the playoffs now. So, and Michael Van Goor and Nathan Aspin, there's a lot of players who would like to state their name to that, that top title. So it's going to be very exciting. And obviously we increased our prize money for the first time this year. So, yeah, it's going to be big time. Nice.

23:55
Just on narratives, just to close, obviously Luke is looking at that Phil, a long way away, but that Phil Taylor record, you kind of build that up? Do you have to play it into that narrative or is that a bit far away? He talks about it. Yeah. I mean, he's certainly confident. It's a heck of a long way to go and a lot can change in anyone's lifetime. know, potentially, but, you know, we just, everyone has to be careful and just temper expectations at this stage. Because as say, the...

24:23
The quality and depth of the competition, I would suggest, is stronger than when Phil was around. you know, that's always the challenge. And as I say, the rivalry between Luke Humphries and Luke Littler, I expect them to be trading titles for a bit of time to come. Nice. It creates for some really beautiful stories, some big narratives and some super entertaining sports. So, yeah, Adam, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And yeah, let's enjoy the end of the Premier League. Brilliant. Thanks very much, Thank you.