iGaming Daily

James Ross (00:03.611)
Last week, the UK Gambling Commission announced new rules regarding bonus incentives aiming to make promotions fairer and simpler for customers. From the 29th of December, UK gambling operators will no longer be allowed to use bonuses as a cross-sell tool, defined by the commission as prohibition on bonus mixing. In addition, the commission will impose a standard 10 times a wagering cap on all bonus requirements, a measure intended to protect customers from unfair and predatory terms. The update concluded with the commission stating that

it will revise the wording of social responsibility code before the changes take place in December. Today, iGamingDaily examines the reaction to the Commission's newly determined bonus rules, a subject that continues to divide opinion across the industry. My name is James Ross, I am the multimedia editor at SBC, and I am joined by the two Tedds, who, yet again, every time I'm with the two Tedds, I need to think of a way to differentiate the two Tedds. So...

I'm gonna keep it simple and use my nickname for Ted Omclay, the editor at SBC News. Ted Omclay, you are gonna be OC. You're just gonna be known as OC. Is that okay?

Ted OC (01:09.552)
That's cool with me mate, I've been called much, worse.

Ted Menmuir (01:12.664)
Yeah, I could be referred to as Ted O.G. There you go, man. All right, okay. Very well, very well. A weaker drama and weaker reactions by the industry. But we're gonna get into that, no doubt.

James Ross (01:12.803)
Ha ha ha.

Ted OC (01:16.169)
Hahahahah

James Ross (01:18.419)
Oh, I'm happy. Let's do that. We'll go to Taddo see in Taddo G. OK, for this episode. Perfect. Taddo G, how have you been? How have you been since we last spoke?

James Ross (01:34.597)
We will get into that. will get into that. And Ted OC, how have you been? I apologize before this podcast because I pretty much made you black out your whole room.

Ted OC (01:44.416)
no, I mean we've had to do this procedure before so I'm used to being back in the back cave for the podcast, my podcast hole. Yeah, the black jumper hasn't helped either has it? I needed to put on one of my more brighter items of clothing.

Ted Menmuir (01:53.71)
The goth room.

James Ross (02:03.431)
You know what, instead of Ted OC and Ted OG, I should just call you Batman and Ted, you wanna be Alfred or Robin?

Ted OC (02:07.248)
Hahaha

Ted Menmuir (02:10.281)
I'll go Alfred, Oh god, don't start. No, I seem like with this new job role, yeah. I think it's like Andy, but put him in the old people's home soon, so yeah.

James Ross (02:10.405)
You should be Alfred actually, because you were his mentor initially. And you are of the age of Alfred, I suppose.

James Ross (02:22.343)
I would

Long over to Ted OG, long over to you. I won't degrade you anymore. I'll call you Ted OG, Ted OC, we'll stick with that. And like I said, we're talking about this new update from the UK Gambler Commission regarding kind of bonus mixing as they call it. OG, my OG, what has been the kind of reaction, for anyone who knows that reference for fair play.

Ted Menmuir (02:30.99)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Menmuir (02:47.202)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (02:55.879)
What has been the general reaction to the UK Gamble Commission's announcement?

Ted Menmuir (03:01.164)
Well, on Wednesday, and when this dropped, think it was kind of Wednesday lunchtime, we got it out there, and the reaction was all over the place. There was kind of this innate response that the way it was worded, especially with the term bonus mixing, people kind of thought that that was the end of their prohibited cross cell, which hasn't happened.

James Ross (03:26.225)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Menmuir (03:27.214)
the other thing here is that I think there were It's people's kind of surprise that the white paper changes are still happening or still ongoing And this was actually applied as a kind of a secretary secondary measure of the consultation on in its response to kind of fairness and Social responsibility that must be applied to uk gambling So I think people were with kind of thinking that they thought that the big decisions were kind of over for the for you

for UK operators, which hasn't happened. This is a secondary decision in terms of bonuses and how the UK commission is defining the use of kind of fair terms on promotions, on incentives and on customer engagement. Again, changes are still being applied and the reaction is, mean, there's a thousand opinions on bonuses and this is regardless of the decision of the UK GC. But I think

on the whole it's taken a decision and we're gonna see what comes out in December.

James Ross (04:34.663)
Mm-hmm.

Ted OC (04:36.496)
Yeah, I mean I'd agree with Ted on a lot of this I think Like I said, the reactions have been very varied If we were going to sit here and talk about every single stakeholder opinion on bonuses we'd be here all week But yeah, it did seem to start with that there were a lot of people who weren't really reading past the headlines and past the taglines and really sort of taking this as like, oh right, it's the end of Cross Cell I know these days, I know, yeah

James Ross (05:00.743)
Who reads past headlines and taglines anymore? Come on.

Ted Menmuir (05:02.926)
You

Yeah, but...

Ted OC (05:07.248)
They're making my job seem very meaningless there, James. Yeah, good point.

James Ross (05:11.687)
That's all for now.

Ted Menmuir (05:11.886)
Thank

Ted OC (05:17.22)
So yeah, there are a lot of people who just sort of weren't reading past the initial sort of statements I think and we're taking this as to be like what Ted said, of the end of cross-sell between betting and casino content and products even. And if you look at the actual, look really in between the lines and look at the actual details, obviously it's not that at all. It's more of a, it's a restriction on it, but it's not, it's not the final nail in the coffin of cross-selling products.

James Ross (05:44.455)
no coming crook cross selling is is important for this industry most like all you can't was relying on someone and if you've had other countries around europe who've kind of introduce some restrictions in some way you you've got sweden introduced a strict on regulations in twenty nineteen the nevel incident in twenty two eight two will bone all playing high wage and bonuses even people in the companies in the u k market you have floor who did a voluntary which is waging requirements through the party power that fans got

Ted Menmuir (06:04.205)
Yeah.

James Ross (06:14.759)
products. this isn't new, it's just a case of read behind the headlines. But with this, let's actually go more in depth behind the headline and tell OG, let's break down these technical terms, like specifically the bonus times 10 and the cross cell, let's break them down.

Ted Menmuir (06:20.91)
Thanks.

Ted Menmuir (06:35.702)
Okay, so I think the bonus cap on X10 wagering is quite self explanatory.

James Ross (06:42.705)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Menmuir (06:43.534)
from the 19th of December all bonuses must be have standardized wagering of 10 of 10x 10x multiples on the deposit so well the uk gambling commission is getting rid of its kind of multi it's kind of mass multipliers on bonuses with a requirement 50x on the wager and it's also that's going to be strengthened by the decision to kind of realign terms on how bonuses can

can be worded. I think the point of conflict goes back again to what Ted OC said, it's on the bonus mixing. Now, yes, your operator can give you a bonus, but it's restricted to one single category and it cannot be applied across other product segments. So if you get a bonus for casino, it must be spent on a casino segment product.

James Ross (07:15.623)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Menmuir (07:40.206)
you cannot then mix it in. So what you can't do is you can't give someone free money for placing a bet and that they can then go and spend it on a casino product or a bingo product or a poker product. So it's kind of putting a kind of a segment on each kind of product category for bonuses.

James Ross (07:59.047)
And that was it.

Why do you think these bonuses divide such an opinion among industry stakeholders?

Ted OC (08:13.422)
Well, firstly, I think it relates back to what you mentioned earlier that the idea of cross-selling is quite important.

Revenue stream for a lot of operators both big and small I'd say maybe particularly for the smaller ones who haven't got the brand visibility that a lot of the bigger sports books have got the the prospect of yeah of Transferring customers between their different segments between betting and casino between betting and poker bingo, whatever like Ted referred to It's quite valuable for them as a way of yet Maximizing customer value, I guess throughout their business. So there's that element to

And bonusing is often seen as you know, it's quite a useful promotion of attracting people in your life a sign-up bonus So that that's that's where that's what the first opinion is the counter opinion to that though And this is one that's been expressed by a lot of people over the past few years in the context of the gambling app review particularly reformists reform advocates, but again, like you said people within the industry as well is that sometimes these bonuses can be the one of a better word predatory

you know for the most part with a lot of the biggest brands we've talked about and the well established ones, regulated ones, the trustworthy ones

Bonus is pretty straightforward. It's you you deposit a tenner you get 20 30 40 pounds free bet or maybe they might put it around a sporting event where it would be You know, I don't know ahead of the Grand National you come in better tenor will give you a 40 pound free bets on the on the Grand National Day races or something like that But if you go and look at a lot of other companies particularly and often obviously this then starts falling outside of the UK GC's remit but a lot of the I guess one of it again want a better better term gonna use that

James Ross (09:48.103)
You

Ted OC (09:59.616)
word a lot today a lot of so like dodgy crypto casinos and things like that you find some pretty wild and what seems to be very predatory sign-up offers with things like no cash back until you've spent a hundred two hundred pounds and things like that and You often find them across some of the more yeah less visible less visible light on You know unsanitary kind of brands I guess And that's got that's been getting a lot of criticism a lot of a lot of people who have been calling for reform in this country

Ted Menmuir (10:13.192)
Yeah

James Ross (10:13.543)
Mm-hmm.

Ted OC (10:29.49)
see that as an example of predatory marketing tactics, predatory customer acquisition by the industry. And then you've also got the other stakeholders you mentioned like with Flutter's brands within the industry itself, who I think have kind of taken a step back and looked at bonuses and bonus promotions and realized that there are concerns about it and it's basically, it's not great PR a lot of the time for these practices to continue in the way that they have done. And like you said, James,

they've taken that step themselves way ahead of the UK GC making its decision here and decided to move on from it and I think if we want to talk about some of the reactions as well I think some of the reactions I've heard over the past couple of days have almost kind of expressed that opinion as well like yeah it's time the industry moved on and modernized and was more responsible in the way it carries out bonus promotions

Ted Menmuir (11:23.426)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (11:24.935)
So how can we move on? We do have to move on to a quick ad break. But when we do come back, going to continue on this story. And we'll look at if the UK GC could have actually implemented some tougher restrictions and how this may impact customer strategy. So please stay tuned and we'll be back after this ad break.

Welcome back, we continue on the UKGC's bonus story and as I mentioned before the ad, we're gonna look at if these UKGC implementations could have had tougher restrictions against them. TedoG, we'll come to you because, I'm sorry, we already mentioned kind of like previous,

Ted Menmuir (12:10.798)
Yeah.

James Ross (12:16.527)
markets who have had tough restrictions against them. Could the UK GC have followed suit because they have a case an example of what works and what doesn't work?

Ted Menmuir (12:18.638)
Sure.

Ted Menmuir (12:26.132)
I think we've got to be very careful here with the language.

James Ross (12:29.681)
Okay.

Ted Menmuir (12:30.018)
because I don't view this as an outright ban on bonuses or a restriction. think this is more of a determination on how bonuses should be applied by operators. And there has been a discussion about what should be kind of standardized terms for the use of a bonus. many leaders in our industry view the bonus as very much like an archaic marketing tool that is carried on in the industry. And it's gone to this

place where it's now a race to the bottom in terms of what promotions you use and it's kind of like the last kind of you know your last incentive to push a player to sign on. The other thing here is that we're now in the era kind of cost controls for the industry so yes bonuses carry a price they're also open to abuse.

You have, especially if you're one operators, will have teams looking into this who don't necessarily like the players that are being brought on by bonuses.

James Ross (13:33.265)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Menmuir (13:34.028)
So that's where you kind of get this like deemed like mixed reaction. Now I think that this decision and looking back at the consultation and what was referred back to the UKTC is that it's also been taken in with the response of the industry, which is divided on the actual final application of what a bonus structure should be like. The 10X wager I think makes sense across the board.

The application of bonus mixing, I think that kind of harms your likes of your white label turnkey providers and also your products deal your kind of lesser product segments like bingo in which they need kind of Cross-sell onto your slots and your gaming platforms So yes, there is an impact But I wouldn't call it an out and out kind of restriction. I think it's more of a determined play by the UK GC

James Ross (14:34.447)
anything else is

Ted OC (14:36.752)
Yeah, I think Ted's kind of hit the nail on the head really there. I'd agree that I don't think it's... It shouldn't really be phrased as a ban on...

on bonuses or restriction on bonuses more of a clarification of where the industry is going to take these products and how to, products not a product, where the industry is going to take these promotions and how it's going to handle them moving forward in a manner that is more responsible for the industry, more sustainable for it as well I think in encouraging more player health and things like that. There's a saying that we'll have heard thrown about a lot in our role in the media

But also on you hear it the event in the event side of our business as well You know people often say like the best type of the best have a player you want is a happy player because they're not going to be is it not a happy player a Healthy player healthy players a happy place something like that I don't know I can come with a good tagline for the BGC here It's quite you know healthy players are sustainable players aren't the ones who don't have that aren't gonna be affected by gambling harm ultimately are gonna burn out are gonna face problems and are gonna have to leave you want you want people

Ted Menmuir (15:25.41)
Yeah.

James Ross (15:25.515)
Hehehehehe

Ted OC (15:43.922)
who are in control who will return and be a good customer to you and and I think that is some of the reactions I've seen so I think that this is a potential it might be a move in that direction by segmenting by segmenting the bonuses

Ted Menmuir (15:56.802)
Yeah.

I mean, again, it's also look, this is a year of application for changes in UK gambling. And you can kind of see this come into play with the lowering of stake limits. And if you tell me which is going to have a bigger impact, no doubt the stake limits. Yeah, that's going to be a much, much bigger adjustment. I think coming into kind of

Ted OC (16:19.876)
Yeah, huge.

Ted Menmuir (16:23.526)
H2 this year, I won't be surprised if you know your PLCs and your tier ones start to really scale back on promotion or just revise that whole segment.

James Ross (16:35.847)
How do you think operators are likely to react and how might this actually affect their customer strategy? Because again, if you go to Sweden who imposed their strict bonus regulations and made it tighter for one time offer per customer, once it happened, they saw a decline in customer acquisition rates, players started to mitigate to unlicensed sites and unregulated operators started to adopt by shifting towards more loyalty-based rewards and kind

personalized retention strategies. Are we going to see something similar to this with the UK? How are the operators going to react to this? From a customer strategy point of view and go to the OG on this one.

Ted Menmuir (17:19.342)
It's hard to tell. I mean, I don't want to kind of compare the UK gambling like for like with Sweden or what's happening in the Netherlands. And again, their kind of application has been a lot more restrictive and a lot more kind of imposed directly as a condition of licensing and how they apply bonuses, which hasn't happened in the UK. Strategy. I mean, I think anyhow.

James Ross (17:25.83)
No.

Ted Menmuir (17:48.332)
The majority of operators from pretty much April onwards are going to have to revise their marketing strategies just because there's going be so much realignment happening in UK gambling. So think that's going to happen regardless of the bonuses. I think you're going to break down the operations of operators, of how marketing is applied in UK gambling. I think it might have an impact on the affiliates and how they promote.

James Ross (18:15.078)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Menmuir (18:17.846)
individual operators to their audiences. Also, again, going back to what type of operator are you and what is your operating framework? I think it will impact turnkeys and the bingo segment. I think, again, it just points to kind of more revisions. think like what we saw with the gamut compliance checks, the best prepared companies will come out on top.

James Ross (18:48.808)
maybe Sweden is that extreme example maybe let's play devil's advocate for a UK example we mentioned Florida when they they want to reduce wage room requirements they they revealed they actually had a minimal impact on revenue and they kind of shifted their focus to retention kind of through that personalized engagement rather than the high-risk portions so there you go there's an example of kind of a UK how it might work effectively

Ted Menmuir (18:58.732)
Yeah.

Ted Menmuir (19:11.656)
But then I'd flip it back to you. mean, like, James and Ted, you your customers, your consumers, do you care that much about a £20 bonus?

James Ross (19:23.591)
It doesn't incentivize me too much, but at the same time if someone's giving me a free bonus I'll take that. But then it's always, it's always, it's always run by free bets and I'm never really intrigued by free bets myself to be honest though. Returns are through free bets.

Ted OC (19:43.842)
I'd say there from the customer standpoint as well. I'm going to take this into his customer and the industry. The customers will always be interested in placing a bet. If you're someone who enjoys betting on sports, you're going to be interested in a flutter on the football, on the horses, on the boxing, whatever.

It's not like customers are gonna be looking at this and going like oh my god Well, I'm not gonna be able to get a four, you know a free bonus on the slots and the And and the foot and the football batting now. I'm gonna pack it. I'm gonna yeah, I'm gonna Yeah, it's not it's not people are gonna just go right that's it I'm done. I'm never going back to to to whoever paddy power bet free x5 whoever they like to bet with because of that like and

James Ross (20:13.667)
I want my free £20 slot bonus on Jurassic World, right? I want that now.

Ted Menmuir (20:28.62)
Mm-hmm.

Ted OC (20:31.888)
The other thing as well is, mean, this industry, if we're just talking in the UK context, James, you've talked about Sweden and obviously that being one of the more extreme examples. In the UK, like this industry has faced regulatory changes, quite big ones. Ones that are way more significant than this, in my opinion, and still year over year remains highly valuable. It turns over significant GGY and GGR. Various companies are making record profits. Like you had the, one of the big examples I remember with the 2019 slots,

state reduction in retail betting racks at the time I was working in betting shops at that time and we were building up to that and it was you know quite a big thing making sure all the customers knew about it that right the games that you enjoy playing are going to be changed from whatever day was when it was April 2019 and then after that you know things just carried on as normal they just weren't able to stake as much and and and now we've got that applying to the to the online slots which Ted mentioned earlier which will be far more significant you've got the opt-in and

James Ross (21:04.763)
Mm-hmm.

Ted Menmuir (21:04.866)
Yeah.

Ted Menmuir (21:29.29)
I agree.

Ted OC (21:31.714)
and opt out marketing requirements as well, which is probably gonna be a lot more of a significant blow to operator marketing than this bonus sort of thing. But you have all these changes, you've had various regulatory changes over the years and after them all, the same companies have always been, are still making revenue, they've still got customers, they remain resilient and customers always remain interested, I think. Yeah, maybe I'm being cynical.

Ted Menmuir (21:56.64)
Yeah, I mean, going back to the reactions and going back to the reactions and this kind of panic that Crossl is over and they can't have you won't be able to have competitive bonuses anymore. But I think, look, it's twenty twenty five. And if you're an operator.

James Ross (21:58.215)
Very precious of you.

Ted OC (22:00.887)
haha

Ted Menmuir (22:14.67)
and your marketing strategy or your acquisition strategy revolves around issuing bonuses, I think you're in a very, very, very big trouble. Because you've got to have more tools than that, right? And especially if you're competitive, it's such a hyper saturated market, so aggressive on pricing, like your player knows what's up.

So this idea that the bonuses are there as a determining tool, I'm just not buying it.

James Ross (22:47.463)
We could talk a bit further on this, we are out of time. So I'm going to wrap up this podcast. Ted OC, Ted OG, thank you so much for joining us on the discussion today. There is more information to listeners or viewers if you're on YouTube out there, please click on the links in the description below. It will take you to Ted Memoirs article on this and also to Ted OC's, sorry, called you Memoir, Ted OG, I'll stick with it.

Ted OC (23:11.841)
Hahaha

James Ross (23:12.647)
tell sees sbc decide whether we could really this throughout as things come i've been james ross this is the night in the late thank you for listening june next time