iGaming Daily

James Ross (00:01.88)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the iGaming Daily Podcast, your go-to podcast for all the latest updates, insights and discussions on the ever-evolving world of iGaming and gambling regulations. Today, we're diving into a significant shift in the UK gambling landscape as operators brace for new regulatory changes set to take effect this April. At the heart of this transformation is the newly confirmed RET, Statutory Leve, designed to fund research, education and treatment.

otherwise known as RET, for problem gambling. With the first payment due in October, stakeholders across the industry are now preparing for its impact. But that's not all. Changes to online slot state limits, land-based casino regulations, and a newly renewed, sorry. But that's not all. Changes to online slot state limits, land-based casino regulations, and a renewed focus on gambling advertisement are also making headlines. And with, what is it, Baroness?

Tycross to come. And with Byron S Tycross reaffirming the government's commitment to tackling legal gambling, what does all of this mean for operators, players and the industry at large? Joining me, James Ross, is Ted Memwe, who will help break down what these changes mean, how businesses can prepare and what the future of UK gambling regulation might look like. Ted, welcome. How are you doing?

Ted (01:02.138)
Kite Cross.

Ted (01:26.458)
Very well, James, looking forward to the weekend. But it's been a...

James Ross (01:27.406)
you

Oh, stop, stop, Going out on Monday.

Ted (01:34.228)
sorry.

James Ross (01:35.008)
I lost it again. Dad, how you doing? You okay?

Ted (01:40.464)
Fine James, fantastic. Glad to be here on a Monday.

James Ross (01:44.002)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so it's a good way to start the week. It's a heavy story. You worked on this towards the end of last week. I believe it was Thursday or Friday. And it's big updates. It's one that you've been itching for, to be honest, for quite a while, haven't you? Yeah, no, it's big. We're going to dive into it before we do. It's always nice to mention the supporter of the iGamingDay podcast, and that is OptiMove.

Ted (01:52.134)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (01:57.907)
It's Shin-Fu,

James Ross (02:10.082)
the number one CRM solution for the iGaming market. Octomove, we love you and thank you for being our supporter. Ted.

Ted (02:19.524)
Yes, James.

James Ross (02:21.39)
Let's jump on this now, let's dive into it, because the introduction of the ROT Levy Marks, like I said in the introduction, a major, major shift within the industry now. How do you... Well, first of all, can you just delve into kind of the updates that Baroness Tycross brought to the Batman Gaming Council?

Ted (02:37.776)
So.

On Thursday, Baroness Trice-Gross, well, she led the speech at the Beddington Gaming Council's annual meeting and she confirmed the Labour government's schedule that the rent levy and online slots will be applied. So the rent levy will be applied from the 6th of April with first maintenance inbound from October.

James Ross (02:49.699)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (03:08.078)
and the online slots, the online stake limits will be applied from £5 and £2 from the 21st of May. Those were two major announcements to give at the AGM. is to an extent, it is something that the industry has been preparing for over the last year or so, especially with regards to online slots that were being prized with what's on the high street.

James Ross (03:18.307)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (03:30.094)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (03:37.178)
But we're kind of going towards the kind of unknown in the industry with a new system being applied to responsible gambling, to safer gambling and public gambling harms. And it's really now up to, I think, everyone involved to kind of coordinate it and see how it goes. It's way, way too early to judge whether this is the right system or not to be applied to something as complex as gambling addiction.

James Ross (04:06.862)
mm-hmm yeah you said you don't know if it's the right method to go with or not but what I've liked is before, in the previous government, the conservative government, felt at a snail pace and there were so many eyes over this during the kind of research phase now since Labour have come in I'll let the viewers decide from the UK if they've done a good job or in the first six months but what has been nice is there's been quite a lot of fast action on this

Ted (04:22.182)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (04:36.27)
We've seen doing a lot more updates, but when it actually comes to this being implemented, how do you kind of see this impacting operators and not just the big ones, like the small ones as well.

Ted (04:48.955)
I think that there's a lot of the red levy does what it says on the tin.

James Ross (04:53.57)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (04:54.118)
And by that, mean, it is the guarantee of a hundred and a million plus one hundred million pounds going towards problem gambling treatment, research, education and treatment guaranteed by the industry. But at the same time, with the industry not no longer having a say of how kind of funds or presumably having a say of how kind of funds were allocated. So it's the removal of the it's it's the implementation of the

Thank

It's the implementation of the Office of Health and Improvement and Disparities and also the UK's research and innovation as to where the kind of funding goes, especially kind of the IHID's position as the harm prevention, in the role of harm prevention commissioner.

James Ross (05:56.088)
So said the OHID, Office for Health Improvement and Disparities. That's correct, Yeah, cool. Just wanted to clarify that one.

Ted (06:00.228)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ted (06:05.163)
Let's go again on that.

James Ross (06:08.312)
Sure, sure, no issue.

James Ross (06:14.67)
i'll just ask you a basic form of the original question how do you this impacting operators both large and small

Ted (06:18.853)
Yeah.

Ted (06:24.866)
Okay, well yeah look we're going through a period of transition and I think you're right

with how you kind of framed it as in things are getting done. And I think when you look at the, I think let's start with the the RET levy. This is very much a case of it does what it says on the tin. And by that, it's the overall kind of guarantee that there will be a hundred million pounds guaranteed for problem gambling, research, education and treatment. In which also what the government has kind of factored in is the fact that it now has kind of an arm's length away from the industry and how kind

that funding is applied and the structure there is that the NHS is the lead commissioner with 50 % and then it's supported by the the office for health and improvement and disparities that will serve as the prevention commissioner geared towards kind of research and then getting 30 % and then the kind of the extra

the extra 20 percent is geared towards the UK Research and Innovation Department. So it's new structure. I think the government has kind of ticked the boxes of what it wanted. It's now time for it to be applied.

James Ross (07:39.566)
And you've just gone through the tiered structure there and that is based on the gross gambling yields to GGY. Do you think this levy is proportionate and fair across those sectors? Yeah.

Ted (07:46.031)
Yep.

Ted (07:56.53)
It's a wider levy now and will feature a contribution from any licensed business in the UK regardless of what activity it's featured in and also discipline whether it's B2C or B2B. So again this is the the whole

This is taking on the government's approach that everyone has to be committed towards fighting gambling addiction and gambling harms. And many people call this a tick-boxes exercise. I kind of don't view it that way. I think that there is a basis for every license contributing to problem gambling.

Feedback, you know, of divides the industry. Some say that, OK, but what's it really going to change? The majority of the funding will still come from from your top five operators. They will be kind of and then it's what can really what can the long tail really provide to that? Right. And also, what is the accountability there? Again, I think this is this it's it's something that really kind of divides opinion.

James Ross (09:10.926)
And you've already mentioned that the NHS, they're going to take that central role in distributing the funds.

Ted (09:16.048)
Mm.

James Ross (09:19.566)
people in the NHS, people in the UK, are very, very aware how the current state of the NHS is in terms of being overly stretched, understaffed, you know, there seems to be, what would you call them? Maybe one of the better word kind of protest or strike, strike's probably good, but strike's quite a lot. So when it actually comes to the NHS, is there that believability from the industry that they can distribute this?

Ted (09:25.73)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (09:38.15)
Sure.

James Ross (09:47.8)
fairly have the resources capable to manage this and how might this actually change the approach to problem gambling treatment and prevention.

Ted (09:56.784)
So here's where you get the...

Concerns and anxieties about the new system and one being about the NHS is kind of first steps of taking over the red levy and also how it will treat and it's not only the NHS but the other departments of the ID and UKRI it's how they're to treat kind of the third sector that was already involved and that already kind of provided kind of frontline services for treatment support or problem gambling. So how is it going to rectify this

this network that already existed and that already has kind of its capabilities and competencies within I think smaller kind of smaller organizations that might be kind of independent might move faster and also I think kind of reflecting back to the network that was created it was that it was quite centralized within Gamblerware and that

James Ross (10:31.534)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (10:51.724)
that's kind of been taken out but Gamblerware is still here so that's another kind of area that has to be looked at. How our kind of old stakeholders are going to be treated and it's a concern that's happened throughout the debate of this. I reflecting back on the process of how we got here

The amount of times that we in the consultation period someone raised up these issues did come to light.

James Ross (11:24.366)
One of the things as well that was mentioned in the article that you wrote Ted, which I'll leave a link in the description for the listeners to check out, and I would have mentioned in the introduction is the change to online state limits. They've now been brought in line or they will be brought in line with the retail counts part. So it's five pound for adults, those 25 are over and then two pound for those ages 18 and 24.

Ted (11:39.29)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (11:50.414)
do you think these measures will kind of achieve the government's goal and bring in parity between the online and retail space? Because there's no arguing that online is where everyone goes. The retail space in itself is, again, one of the better phrase, a dying breed. Yeah, exactly. A different experience altogether.

Ted (12:00.325)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (12:06.724)
Yeah, yeah. And a different type of customer too. Look, I think that's the acid test for any regulation. they wanted, you know, the government, and it's not just the Labour government, it's the Conservative government, it's the reformists who believe that...

James Ross (12:21.571)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (12:30.276)
you know, they clearly viewed online slots as a category as being the highest risk. But they have their view of kind of taming it or kind of reducing exposure is to apply limits. I think a lot of kind of this this was factored in by yesterday on privacy with the high street.

James Ross (12:36.44)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (12:53.818)
but also there's a lot of kind of accountability of young, they want younger players to kind of, especially at the key age of under 24s, not to engage with this category. So yes, they can engage with sports betting, they can engage with poker, but slots is kind of viewed as a no-no. We're not just seeing this in the UK. I think we've seen this play out in the Netherlands, in Spain as well. It's down to really, I mean, your view of the regulation, mean, does putting

limit really put these customers off from playing.

James Ross (13:28.216)
Yeah, first off, I just want to say it's weird hearing the reform as the third biggest party you mentioned in the UK and not the Lib Dems. But you re- All right, sorry, I you meant the reform party. No, you raised an interesting point as well, Slots, and kind of, you know, biggest risk factor. We recently did a story on the Bolatso.

Ted (13:35.782)
No, I mean by reform I meant reformists. No, not Nigel and Kyle, yeah.

James Ross (13:55.982)
poker game which had its reclassified, well its pegi rating was reclassified to 12 plus instead of 18 and another game on that was Luck Be a Landlord which has the skin and everything surrounded about it being a slot title and that same argument there is you're introducing kind of young people to these slot mechanics or these slot visuals at best. So yeah, these new introductions on the face of it sound good.

The one thing I would kind of factor in though is maybe from a UK affiliate space we already seen because there's a wrath of changes coming in previously to set the some limits on online slots a lot of the UK based streamers moving out of the country to then stream slots in another country to not have these limits and then also maybe not target the UK audience but still still getting the UK audience in there so it'll be interesting to see just how big of an impact these this

Ted (14:44.327)
yeah, yeah.

Ted (14:54.282)
I think that this, yeah.

James Ross (14:54.638)
You say, you say, I say R-E-T. Potato, tomato.

Ted (14:57.926)
I think the RET, I think if you're a DCMS and you're looking at what's being implemented, and especially gambling commission too, I think you're gonna look at RET and the RET levy is gonna play out. I think that's fixed. But I think in terms of the gambling regulations for online slots, I think that there could be kind of a movement there to either maybe increase the limits or...

James Ross (15:14.286)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (15:27.91)
maybe kind of just revise it or just test it out over a period of six to eight months.

James Ross (15:33.454)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (15:34.214)
The reason being is that actually, it's not technically that hard to apply, right? So it is kind of a changeable restriction. It's just telling the operators to fix the limits on the slots, whilst you're not kind of taking a whole review of a system on board, are you? So I think that if, for the sector, I think the sector should kind of...

James Ross (15:53.538)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (15:58.687)
keep open mind on this and not just believe that this is fixed forever.

James Ross (16:05.59)
Okay, and let's look at before we go to an outbreak. Let's look at the the land based counterpart. Sorry, the online counterpart, which is the land based. There's proposed updates to the land based casino regulations. Ted, I'll let you jump into those. But can you just kind of and there's no date confirmed for each year. But how do you think this uncertainty within the land based sector is going to affect operators investment and planning now kind of?

Ted (16:10.436)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (16:23.93)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (16:34.142)
medium to long term.

Ted (16:36.624)
So the land-based changes, the land-based reorganisation, this is for your ranks, your aspers, this is kind of viewed as critical.

and this is regulation that's really going to be seen in 2025. And there are benefits here. I the increase in gaming machines 80 up to venue. Also the fact that they want to kind of have much more kind of dynamic proposition there, be able to kind of change up their games and kind of the formats of the floor is huge, right? For mid-size to bigger casinos, right? I think we'll make it much more competitive.

However, it still, it really hasn't, the government really haven't set stated why, but there's just no kind of implementation date here. It carries favorability with the actual, the majority politicians because they view kind of casinos as part of the high street rather than an online discipline.

It's kind of like a job creator. And then if you look at the majority of kind of towns in the UK, are, they are kind of, how do I put them? are, you know, segments of commerce that are kind of like put away or quite specific.

James Ross (17:57.262)
Mm-hmm. Perfect. No, no, that was good. We're going to take a quick ad break. And when we come back, we're going to go over kind of the role of advertising sponsorship and tackling illegal gambling and consumer protection. So see you soon.

Ted (17:58.618)
I'm not sure if I...

Ted (18:09.542)
Thank

James Ross (18:14.156)
welcome back as mentioned said we're to talk about role role of advertising sponsorship and technically we're going to assume protection we'll start with advertising first because barnes time cross acknowledge growing concerns of a gambling advertising do you think industries doing enough now to self-regulate or is it for the government intervention is that an inevitable process or missing

Ted (18:21.113)
Sure.

Ted (18:28.902)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (18:38.746)
I think from a speech, it's very much kind of, this is up in the air.

The kind of view here is that I think if the government are kind of giving the final straw to the sector to say, look, you decide the standards, you come back to us. And if we feel that this is not good enough, then we'll take care of it. It's what she said, basically, in a point that, okay, we're not necessarily, we know the reformist concerns.

but it's up to the industry to really show that they can act and that they can put some barriers and parameters, especially to advertising coverage, especially to what's being marketed and conduct.

James Ross (19:20.654)
I mean, we're already set to look at front of shirt sponsorship bands. I believe it's not next year, it's the year after, am I correct? Yep. And you also did a story last week on the kind of Italy's potential U-turn on the sports sponsorship band when it comes to gambling, which is an interesting insight to see. know Spain's our headband as well. What are the kind of potential consequences of stricter advertising controls that we've

Ted (19:26.126)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ted (19:38.085)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (19:50.35)
potentially seen in these other countries and along with the media partnerships as well, not just obviously stadium sponsorships and stuff.

Ted (19:57.606)
Well, look, I think in terms of advertising, the UK is very unique in how it's structured, especially with the CAP and BCAP. And actually, if we refer back to kind of consultations, what CAP always said is that they have designed a code specifically for this and it works because they can look at kind of individual infringements on a basis. And this idea that, you know,

James Ross (20:21.624)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (20:26.35)
just creating kind of steady, you know, fixed regulations works for advertising they're against. So one of the things that I think carries kind of favor with the advertising debate in the UK is that you've got two bodies who are essentially kind of designed to monitor all forms of advertising, you know, whether it be gambling or insurance or food standards. And they're very good at it. And they're very good at pointing out as the one saying like, look, these are the rules. you apply them or don't apply them, but you

James Ross (20:47.352)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (20:56.436)
will receive fines. Now, the ministers have been told, right, like they want, you know, the cap feedback on what should be done. And the cap and B cap have just said, well, look, the system is working. Where the cautions is, is in terms of the kind of parameters of advertising volume, especially around kind of football coverage, mean, sorry, especially around kind of sports coverage.

prime time, how can that kind of be reduced? And that is really now going back to the operators and saying, you know, you've got to come up with something.

James Ross (21:33.634)
Yeah, I think my only concern is with potential stricter advertising controls is, and again, this is just from a UK perspective and mainly even just from a football perspective is gambling sponsorship, advertisement, partnerships make up a strong foundation for the whole football pyramid. forget about the Premier League and potentially even the championship. Those League One and League Two divisions.

Ted (22:00.932)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (22:02.274)
Gambling is kind of, I don't know the figure behind it, but that's their foundation for growth and financial income. If you strip that, if you strip that away, if you make it stricter and tighter, less visible, less chance to advertise, you then risk the destabilisation of that football pyramid. And I don't see another sector coming in to replace what the gambling industry provide the football pyramid in the UK.

Ted (22:07.493)
Yeah.

Ted (22:30.342)
Yeah, I mean to do that it's again We're entering another period where we're soon gonna have the the Premier League report You know who off the Premier League are forcing the the club to submit reports on the Ganon sponsorships They're going now gonna be more community focus and have to actually serve a purpose

This idea that sponsorships aren't monitored is not true. And to a certain extent, the bad sponsorships in football always tend to be kicked out. We've seen these failures happen over time. They do bring the game into disrepute, but it's more about the sponsorships that were formed by the clubs themselves. My view here is that I don't think anyone in the government

James Ross (23:06.254)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (23:24.568)
wants to pursue a blanket ban on gambling but what it wants to see is kind of stronger parameters and also kind of restrictions on what kind of messaging can be said to the public and and also whereabouts I think it's much this is much more towards

a you know let's reduce the volume let's reduce the coverage but also kind of can we actually be better at advertising gambling than we are when we currently are

James Ross (23:54.51)
You mentioned the word strengthening and that's going to be kind of the core topic for the final conversation that we're going to have and that's related to the Cram Policing Bill which aims to strengthen the Gambler Commission's powers in cracking down on illegal operators. Do you think these measures will be effective and can you just explain the potential measures that were introduced by Tigros, Byron S Tigros, sorry.

Ted (24:01.466)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (24:05.446)
Thank

Ted (24:21.904)
So, it's funny because now...

one of the main concerns that we've seen come in is how do you tackle the black market? it's not just, I think that this is now kind of not only just being voiced in industry ranks, but in political ranks too. And I think Baris Tarkovskam stated that, look, concerns are now kind of being interplayed with the crime and policing bill, which gives kind of regulatory authorities such as the UK GCs the rights to kind of target websites, IP block, and then demand

on kind of a cancellation of transactions if they view that, if they view kind of an illegal entity targeting UK consumers. It's something actually that the UK GC haven't had to date, which I'm quite surprised about. Again, I think she kind of concluded Thursday's speech by saying that she, look, we are seeing kind of a regular shift in policy. That's true, right?

James Ross (25:27.918)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (25:28.356)
But overall, what the government wants to see is kind of safer gambling environments. But that really is kind of a two way street. And they're aware of it, that there has to be kind of a collaborative approach between the industry and the regulator and the government. And I think that it's good that we have a government that's kind of much more aware of that, be interplayers all around that. know, gambling just doesn't operate on its own. You need an input from all sorts of bodies and the police too.

James Ross (25:58.499)
Mm-hmm.

Ted (25:58.6)
And again, like one of the things about the crime bill is that there's a much bigger focus now on kind of cyber crime, identity theft, stuff like that. So I think those kind of interplayers are now going to come in with our overall kind of...

the overall debate of UK gambling. And then the funny thing is how regulatory matters always play out. Because you think you're getting to a fixed point, but everything just always kind of unwinds away again. And that's kind of the nature of regulatory development, isn't it?

James Ross (26:16.846)
Mm-hmm.

James Ross (26:34.158)
is and I'm not going to ask you how big of a threat does illegal gambling pose to licensed operators we know they're a threat it's there's no clear there's no clear way no clear way about it there's no doubt in it but what we do want to ask you is kind of what steps do you think the industry should take to ensure that regulation doesn't drive more players towards that unlicensed platform

Ted (26:58.458)
Good question.

I think 2025 is a year of transition. It's a year of kind of applying. We're going to see how the operators react to new laws. I think that, look, from my perspective, we've got a lot better at taking care of the customer and intervening there.

The problem is, I think that you have to have a competitive product and one that actually stands. I think what we've seen in other markets, I'm grateful that the UK is not part of that, but if you take a look at Germany and you've got real high kind of high limits on low limits on slots and staking.

Deposit thresholds, universal checks, right? That's the stuff that really drives your customer to the black market. And you're now talking about the black market intertwined with new developments, crypto. And I think you're looking at a new period of exposure of the consumer himself.

James Ross (28:18.446)
Ted, that's all we've got time for. You mentioned the black market. Just for the listeners, I will be attending the Deal Me Out conference in Manchester, which is a conference all about the black market prevention. You'll no doubt hear from me and a few other of my colleagues at the event. But until then, Ted Menway, thank you for joining us on iGaming Daily. Again, I'll leave all links related to the topics discussed in today's podcast in the description below. But apart from that...

i'm gonna have to do that again because i've spoken as i'm doing next week and not that i'm actually there

James Ross (28:57.528)
perfect that's kind of all we've got time for Ted. For the listeners out there I will be attending the Deal Me Out conference so you'll hear more about that it's going to be on the black market prevention later on in the week on iGaming Daily and what me and a few colleagues experienced from the show but apart from that this has been iGaming Daily I'll leave all the links in the description below on everything we've talked about today apart from that have a good rest of the week

Ted (29:30.15)
Why not wrong with myself?