iGaming Daily

Jessica Welman (00:02.149)
It's a bird. It's a plane. It's a casino in the sky? Ever since Delta teased an impending partnership with DraftKings, the gambling industry has been buzzing about the prospect of in-flight gambling. One state lawmaker even proposed a bill about it. There's one little problem though, and we're going to tell you what it is on today's episode of iGaming Daily. iGaming Daily is brought to you by Optimove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market.

I am Jessica Wellman, editor of SBC Americas, joined by media manager Charlie Horner. And Charlie, I'm going to break the fourth wall for a minute. I will be there by the time you all listen to this pod, but perhaps it's because I am headed to Manchester tomorrow that I was like, let's talk about planes.

Anaya McDonald (00:48.651)
Yeah, brilliant. We're all very excited to welcome you to the Manchester office, Jess. Looking forward to seeing you in person.

Jessica Welman (00:53.223)
Yeah, I've got my food all planned out. Going to get a meat pie, Indian food. I'm going to the Man U game. I know. This was, I didn't, I wasn't like, let's go. It was more our boss was like, you're taking this ticket and going. So, all right.

Anaya McDonald (01:00.322)
nice.

Wow, that'll be a moment.

Jessica Welman (01:17.655)
Everybody in the office, normally I feel like we do our little American stuff and the rest of the team's like, whatever, go enjoy your pod. And when I was like, we're talking about in-flight bedding, I felt like the Slack channel just kind of lit up, just like, excuse me, what? So yeah, when you heard, so we had, this is what happened first. Delta.

teased a partnership with DraftKings. Did you hear that when that happened or was this news to you when I sent the bill that came later?

Anaya McDonald (01:48.417)
No, this was announced during the Consumer Electronics show, wasn't it? In Vegas at the start of the year. Yeah, I saw this news piece come out.

Jessica Welman (01:57.243)
Yeah, it's... I don't know what it is though, to be honest. They teased it. DraftKings was like, eh, we'll talk about it later, to be honest. So, yeah, what did he say? The CEO of Delta said, from fantasy sports to online adventures, gaming has become a regular part of the daily lives of millions of customers and you shouldn't have to hit pause just because you're in the sky. Except you kind of do.

I mean, I'm curious, are there rules in Europe about wagering while on an airplane?

Anaya McDonald (02:35.395)
I think there'll be rules around it, but it's not something that you would particularly want to do. Just get Paddy Power up or Bet365 up and have a bet whilst you're on the plane. Maybe I'm different to other people, but it's not my idea of making time go by. The only gambling I have seen properly on a flight is Ryanair, who are a low-cost airline in Europe. They have...

scratch cards that you can buy midway through the flight. Yeah, yeah. That's just a way of just getting you to spend.

Jessica Welman (03:06.587)
Really? Huh. Well, I've heard nothing but this is the first nice thing I've heard about Ryanair ever. I mean, that sounds kind of fun. You say it's boring. If you told me I could just grind video poker on this flight over to Manchester, I would be like, load up my card. Let's go. Like, this is a great way to pass the time. I mean, to me, it's, I think it would be a cash cow. People trapped.

with nothing to do and it's like well you could play these slot machines and gamble if you want sure sounds like a surefire way to win

Anaya McDonald (03:41.565)
I'm sure, I'm sure if it was allowed, it would be an instant hit. Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica Welman (03:45.639)
printing money.

So here's the deal in the United States. There are kind of two different laws that make gambling on planes expressly illegal. One is from 1962 that just said on domestic airlines, you can't wager, you can't have gambling devices on the plane, which we'll get into why that matters in a second. And then in 1994, there was an additional

law passed that was like, and if this is an international flight taking off from the US, you're not allowed to do this either. So yeah, herein lies the problem. As soon as this partnership was announced, people were like, that's illegal. I, front office sports has some tease that, you know, it's not going to be, it might be like free to play or something where

It's not explicitly gambling, but it's still DraftKings related. It could be something like that. I don't know if DFS is a skill game is something. don't DFS on a plane doesn't really work either. cause you know, you submit the roster ahead of time, but yeah. So at the national level, this is an issue and yet we got this Connecticut bill related to this. have you taken a look at this? I can run it down or you can.

Anaya McDonald (05:10.435)
I've seen little parts of this, but if you'd like to give us a lowdown.

Jessica Welman (05:14.683)
Yeah, it's pretty brief. It's just a single paragraph that basically says if it is a plane taking off from an airport in Connecticut, by the way, like big airports in Connecticut, there is one, Hartford, which isn't that big. If it's taking off from a commercial, an airline within Connecticut, that it needs to be in compliance with the laws of Connecticut, which are

It's DraftKings, Fanatics, and Fandl are the only three that are allowed in the state. And then 1 % of all of the revenue generated betting on these flights would go back to Connecticut to support public education. So at FACE, what do you think of this bill?

Anaya McDonald (06:01.955)
Well, I guess if you can, let's just put aside the federal challenges because that's the whole other, that's the whole other situation. Yeah, so let's assume that the federal issues are bypassed and this is put into law. I guess it's okay, fine. If people want to gamble on planes, let them do so. If it's within the confines of the law, the main issues that I would have with it is one,

Jessica Welman (06:11.003)
Yeah, this guy can't undo that.

Anaya McDonald (06:31.267)
The first thing that you said, Jess, which is how many flights are actually taken off from and to Connecticut. I can't imagine it's actually going to impact that many players. And B, how do you regulate this? How do you enforce this? Do the geolocation providers have special plane-sized geofences that can just monitor when you're on a flight? Like, how do you know that this one specific flight is

Jessica Welman (06:54.119)
You

Anaya McDonald (07:01.463)
flying over Kansas, but it left Connecticut. I feel like there's a lot of technical things that we just have to work out.

Jessica Welman (07:09.937)
Yeah, is it just feedback? You you have to do it on the screen. But then like, how do you, you're gonna, you're gonna KYC everyone? they, the technical piece of this is actually potentially more fascinating than the legal piece of it, you know, where you're right. It's just like, like, how would this even work? I will give the representative behind this bill, Christopher Rosario, a certain amount of credit that

Anaya McDonald (07:21.034)
Exactly it is.

Jessica Welman (07:39.339)
This bill kind of got immediately shat on on Twitter and people were like, this is so stupid. I emailed him and we're just like, hey, about the fact that this is federally illegal. And he was just kind of like, listen, I see this Delta Draft Kings partnership. I am, I just want to get out ahead of it. And I want to kind of preemptively put something in place that if this does happen, there is a means for us as the state of Connecticut.

to benefit from it. And I get that. That's actually not that abnormal. You think about like New Jersey kind of preemptively passed sports betting while PASPA was still in place. That it's not unprecedented to do something like this. But again, to your point, this one paragraph bill doesn't really explain how we're going to do it, which would be a technical feat, if I do say so myself.

Anaya McDonald (08:39.308)
Yeah, I guess it's props to the representative for having the initiative to draft this up and to try and get ahead of the game because if things work in his favour, then it's great for him, it's great for the industry as well. But yeah, there's a lot of unanswered questions I would suggest.

Jessica Welman (09:02.267)
Yeah, you know, here's where I will say, so like, again, as I said, the technical piece of this is a lot more interesting than the legal piece of this, but Front Office Sports did speak with Daniel Wallach, who's a gaming attorney. think if you're listening to this pod, you honestly are probably in the industry enough to know who he is.

The letter of the law on the Gambling Device Act is that you can't have a gambling device on planes. Like you can't have like a roulette table by the bathroom. So his point was you probably can't call a phone a gambling device or at least there is a legal argument to say, you know, a phone's not a gambling device that there probably is some sort of legal work around here to make it work, but

he made the same point you did that like, technically, I don't know how you do this. Like, GeoComply, while a lovely, extremely advanced technological company, I don't think can geolocate you using triangulation in the sky. So it's just like how on earth this would work through your phone remains a mystery.

Anaya McDonald (10:22.198)
Yeah, and this is the crux of this whole story is that we are very, very scant on details. Even the announcement, non-announcement, it was just a paragraph from a statement that the Delta CEO said at a conference.

Jessica Welman (10:37.371)
Yeah, it was like a keynote throwaway line.

Anaya McDonald (10:41.686)
Yeah, and we've turned this into a big story. It might be that Draftkings and Delta agree on some sort of air miles type deal where if you gamble on Draftkings at a certain time, then you can top up your Delta loyalty rewards card or something along those lines. might not be a full, you can gamble on a Delta flight deal.

Jessica Welman (11:10.865)
Yeah, and we've seen stuff like this, right? We've seen like Marriott and some of the hotel chains partner with Sportsbooks to cross over loyalty points and things like that. I'll be honest, I've been a fanatics loyalist ever since they gave me a free jersey for signing up, but if there's anything I'm extremely loyal to, it is Delta Airlines. So, hey, you might get me, DraftKings, if that's the case. I feel like I can't talk about...

wild out there gambling ideas and the state of Connecticut without inevitably mentioning Senator Richard Blumenthal. He's just, he's always there, man. A federal Connecticut lawmaker, Senator Richard Blumenthal, decided that he needed to write and he's written several open letters to the industry just generally and I appreciate some of them that he is generally just like

WTF dude, this is too far. he, penned an open letter to DraftKings and Delta. Here's the gist of it. This new partnership advances the proliferation of sports betting, further fueling a crisis of problem gambling. Betting companies have leveraged data collected on consumers to entice them through bonus and promotions to hook them on this addictive product, resulting in a public health crisis that is producing huge costs and addiction, financial ruin, family disruption, and much more.

This partnership seems to be aimed at enticing the flying public, many of them possibly problem gamblers or recovering problem gamblers, to engage in a high-risk activity from their seat backs while in the air and unable to walk away. That last point, fair. You truly have a captive audience when it comes to gambling on planes.

The rest of it, I just read it and like, yeah, I forgot that you put that whole safe bet act out there that wants to essentially implode the sports betting industry from within.

Anaya McDonald (13:16.974)
Yeah, mean, look, Richard Blumenthal is a, very, you know, got a lot of perseverance writing all of these open letters and...

Jessica Welman (13:25.701)
I just, I know it's not him, but I just envisioned him over a typewriter every day. Just like, who am going to yell at today?

Anaya McDonald (13:36.524)
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. look, this is sort of greatest hits, bingo line, I guess. you know, people are addicted, a public health crisis, family disruption, financial ruin. Yeah, we've come to expect reactions like this when these kind of partnerships and marketing deals are being put together.

You know, we'll remain to see where the Safe Bear Act goes in the future. We'll see.

Jessica Welman (14:11.079)
Yeah, I like this idea that there are so many problem gamblers that we can't do this. Like, 2 to 3 % of the population seem, appear to have a gambling disorder. I mean, that's a high estimate given some of the other ones. Like, by comparison, it's roughly the same amount of people who are allergic to peanuts, and we still hand those out to everybody on an airplane. I guarantee you.

there are more alcoholics on airplanes and they're not gonna stop serving alcohol on them either. So it's just a bit of a straw man kind of argument to suggest this. So yeah, we'll see. I'll be honest. I highly doubt this bill goes anywhere. Connecticut has a lot of things on its plate. I think kind of the last note of this is just with Trump returning to office,

Two weeks in a row I'm doing this, I can't believe it. I actually think the president has a small impact on this issue. God, I can't believe this is happening.

Anaya McDonald (15:17.592)
Jess, you spent about nine months telling everyone on the team.

Jessica Welman (15:19.808)
I yell, I shoot it down every time and now I'm like, actually.

Anaya McDonald (15:24.846)
Guys, Trump will have no difference. The election doesn't matter. It'll have no impact on gambling whatsoever. This is-

Jessica Welman (15:27.271)
But this one's not like crypto where he's talked about it. This one is more the Biden administration was notoriously extremely hard on the aviation industry. just like high level, Trump is a more pro-business president, pro-commerce than Biden is, less regulations, et cetera, et cetera, that some of this

teeny teeny tiny piece of it might be an anticipation that there would be like less pushback from the federal government to push the boundaries on this a little bit. Teeny teeny tiny. I don't think this is gonna turn into casinos and sports betting on planes, but I've been wrong before. All right, you went to ICE. I'm sure you have lots of content out of it.

what were highlights for mice and things people should check out.

Anaya McDonald (16:29.154)
Yeah, mean, ICE was a great show, very productive, great to see a lot of people that we work with in person. I would highly recommend our listeners to go and check out a new podcast that we've launched actually, an association with IGP. It's called Dear CEO and IGP CEO, yours truly. Yeah.

Jessica Welman (16:51.793)
hosted by.

Yep. Sign me up right now.

Anaya McDonald (16:59.608)
So IGP CEO, Jovana Popovic-Cinacchi will be answering all of your questions related to the iGame and industry. If you're an operator and you have some questions that you would like an experienced industry expert to answer, feel free to get in touch and you can have your questions answered in a future episode. But we have an introduction episode and episode one out now. So I would highly recommend you check that out.

Jessica Welman (17:27.751)
So how do they get in touch? We can throw the email in the podcast description or if there's a better way.

Anaya McDonald (17:33.775)
Yeah, we'll put an email address in the podcast description.

Jessica Welman (17:38.759)
Okay, fantastic. SBC Americas, it's, you missed a humdinger of a hearing this week, Charlie, three and a half hours, I think. It was a six hour hearing total. The Maryland iGaming bill was the last of the bills to be heard. At least three hours of testimony that we have the write up of on SBC Americas. The Senate did not like online casino last year.

Anaya McDonald (17:46.542)
No, it's a shame.

Jessica Welman (18:07.463)
Sure doesn't seem like they like it this year. My internal sources tell me this bill is going nowhere on the Senate side, maybe on the House it will. Lots of other hearings, New Hampshire raising the gaming limit age from 18 to 21 has failed. The New Hampshire online casino bill would be 18 plus. I could go on and on the spreadsheet and the bill tracker that we have going is intense. So.

Keep checking out SBC Americas every day because I don't think a day has gone by so far this year where we haven't written up some sort of piece of legislation that you can check out. In the meantime, enjoy the rest of your week. I'm going to enjoy my week in Manchester. As you listen, I am probably chit chatting with Charlie over fish and chips or some prawn cocktail crisps. And in the meantime, we will see you next time on I Gave Me Daily.

Anaya McDonald (19:04.366)
Before I start recording, Charlie, just double checking something. So you introduced the Dear CEO series as a different podcast. Is it a different podcast or is it just a series with an iGaming Daily? Because I know it's going out on I know what feed it's going out on, to be honest. I know it's called, it's Dear CEO by iGaming Daily. I know that it's going out on iGaming Daily tomorrow, so that's why I'm just going to ask that question.

Jessica Welman (19:16.135)
thought it was.

Anaya McDonald (19:31.416)
Could you just record yourself saying we've got a new podcast series and then I'll attach it or detach it? Sure, You just want the line, we're starting a new podcast series? Series, yeah. Amazing. Within the iGamingDaily brand. then Jess, did you mention Optimo?

Jessica Welman (19:52.015)
At the beginning, yes.

Anaya McDonald (19:53.36)
Yeah, okay, perfect. Do you want me to just do the whole run through again? No, no, just do that as an intro. thank you. Sorry, let me just...

Yeah, we're starting a brand new podcast series.

Anaya McDonald (20:15.171)
that it. Thank you. I'm just going to hit start recording on Root for Sound.