Ep 412: A night at the movies with Friday Night Flop Director Elliott Gerner

Steve Hoare (00:09.316)
Okay, are we going? Okay. Hi, my name's Steve Horan. I'm the editor of SBC Leaders and the Player Protection Hub. And this is iGaming Daily brought to you by OptiMove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market. And today iGaming Daily is gonna take you to the movies, something a little bit different. Cause a couple of weeks ago, I went to the premiere.

Elliott Gerner (00:32.954)
Woohoo!

Steve Hoare (00:38.276)
of a short film called Friday Night Flop and it was directed by my very good friend Elliot Gerner and he's with me today. Hi Al.

Elliott Gerner (00:47.982)
Hi, Steve.

Steve Hoare (00:51.228)
So yeah, I've known Elliot for about 30 years. So this is going to be an interesting chat. Yeah, I know you are that old.

Elliott Gerner (00:57.272)
Is it that long? My god!

More? I reckon 90... what year? 92 we knew each other or something? Yeah. Is that right? 02, 22? I don't know. Long. Long.

Steve Hoare (01:08.251)
Yeah, okay, 32 years then.

So we're here to talk about Elle's film Friday Night Flop because it's about poker. When I was at the premiere it was quite a glitzy occasion there were former poker pros there I think Victoria Corrin I don't think she plays anymore does she Elle do you know?

Elliott Gerner (01:28.302)
She definitely has a home game because she posts on Instagram. I don't know whether she still does tournaments or not but I've read her words. I think she still does play but maybe doesn't tour the world.

Steve Hoare (01:33.355)
Okay.

Steve Hoare (01:43.484)
Yeah, so the North London poker Glitterati were out in force for Elliot's premiere. It was part of the Jewish Film Festival, which is also interesting for the iGaming folks because of the massive influence that Israeli entrepreneurs have had on this space, which we'll come to later. But tell me a little bit about the genesis of this.

Phil, Mel, how did it come about?

Elliott Gerner (02:14.188)
nice use of the word Genesis as well going biblical even better I see what you're doing there Steve yeah it was so it was every year they the Jewish Film Festival

Steve Hoare (02:16.827)
I was wondering if you'd get that.

Elliott Gerner (02:28.858)
have a competition which is run by Pears. a big charitable organization who sponsor or fund two short films. So I wrote a script with a friend of mine, Simon Friedberg, and we submitted it. I think they get like about 80 odd films a year, they said, and they shortlist two. So we were delighted to win the competition. So we had to pitch it back in February, 2024, not long after.

writing it. It took us sort of a very short period of time to write. We did it in three days just because of the sort of deadline which we only realized quite sort of soon after we saw it advertised. So we wrote it together it was the first drama that I'd ever written and we pitched it and then we won and then and then off you go so you get 13 and a half thousand pounds from the Jewish Film Festival to to make it which isn't a lot in movie terms at all.

So we managed to raise a bit more and all the rest and we started shooting it in July and yeah it took three days to film and then you know about three or four weeks to edit and go through all the final post and as you say it went out in in November at the festival so it was great so it premiered at the Kers and Mayfair. We were honoured in fact to be the first film to be shown at the festival so it just

It was put out just before Jesse Eisenberg's film, it's feature called A Real Pain, then ours went out before that and then at the Phoenix Cinema that you came to with The Great and the Good that attended. So it's been a real ride, it's been lots of fun and yeah, it's been great.

Steve Hoare (04:17.18)
Cool. Yeah, so it's your first feature film. I mean, you've got a background in TV, of course. A lot of... you call them reality shows? I guess you kind of do.

Elliott Gerner (04:28.194)
Yeah, sort of like lot of like, yeah, those kind of shows, yeah. Entertainment, factual stuff.

Steve Hoare (04:33.344)
But this came about because of your love of poker,

Elliott Gerner (04:38.202)
That's right, yeah, so that was a big part of the story.

Steve Hoare (04:41.02)
So, me through your history with poker.

Elliott Gerner (04:49.732)
Well I've been playing since as long as I can remember really. Certainly I remember playing cards with my grandparents as a young kid round the table. When I wasn't even, my hands were so small I had to put the cards for like ten card rummy we used to play and put them on a tray on my lap.

and sort of I've been playing you know since then really since a boy probably poker much later in sort of my teens really I got really into it probably 15, 16 and I've always loved those kind of games I used to play chess to quite a high level I was sort of ranked in country when I was a kid and so I like all those kind of those type of games and yeah I've sort of been playing

poker online probably around the time my daughter was born which was around 15 years ago next week she's 15 so I've been playing sort of online pretty much since then and in tournaments and but before that was yeah just sort of a home game which we've been playing for 25-30 years really

Steve Hoare (05:58.756)
Did you used to play on Betfair poker didn't you or was it Sky? I feel like I remember this from years years back.

Elliott Gerner (06:03.704)
Yes. Yeah, you do.

Yeah, Sky, poker, still playing. Yeah, bit of some still on Sky, sometimes, very rarely on PokerStars. We sort of migrated to PokerStars during the during Covid when we could have a home game with our own friends and so we set up a game on that. So I don't know if that was I don't know if you can do that on the Sky poker website, but certainly now that's what I play. So I play Texas Hold'em and Omaha.

Steve Hoare (06:10.427)
Still on Sky.

Elliott Gerner (06:34.53)
my two games of choice.

Steve Hoare (06:35.196)
Cool, cool. So let's talk about the film. It's called Friday Night Flop and it stars Tracy Ann Oberman who was in EastEnders among other things. Actually, I had to look this up afterwards but she killed Dirty Dan as it goes, which is a kind of legendary thing, right?

Elliott Gerner (06:39.769)
Yeah.

Elliott Gerner (06:54.612)
She did, yeah.

Yeah, she's...

Steve Hoare (06:59.504)
Well, to our old, people that are as old as us will remember Dirty Den from the 80s. the youth, like our producer probably, probably don't even know who Dirty Den is. anyway, but she was also in, I think quite famously, a show called Friday Night Dinner, which I didn't know. Is this a coincidence or is that how you got to Tracy Anne?

Elliott Gerner (07:10.754)
Who started it?

Elliott Gerner (07:26.136)
No, that's just a coincidence and even the names are kind of coincidence. We always knew we wanted to...

to sort of set it on a Friday night on Shabbat on the Sabbath, the Jewish Sabbath, which, you know, it'll come clear when if we talk about that, sort of like the actual like the story. But in terms of asking Tracy Anne, we approached her through someone at the Jewish Film Festival. We always had her in mind. And actually at the sort of 15th anniversary of the Jewish Film Festival's sort of short film fund event that we turned up to, I was going to approach her and I got a pack of cards all made up with her face on it. And it was all

my little calling card but she couldn't make it unfortunately but then we got in touch with her and we found out that she has a daughter who's an actor who's exactly the same age as the kid that we were looking to cast and she was fantastic so that's how that came about and yeah so she was yeah she was fabulous as was Anushka her daughter she was amazing

Steve Hoare (08:27.674)
Yeah, she was, she was really good. So yeah, I'll give a slight recap of that. You can buy in when I get it wrong, but of the plot. So it kind of revolves around this mother daughter relationship and the mother's really worried about the daughter. She's basically a teenager or young 20s and never comes out of her bedroom. And there's a...

brilliant scene where she goes up into her bedroom and the daughter's online playing poker. And Tracy Ann, what's her name in the film? Does she have a name in the film?

Elliott Gerner (09:06.095)
yeah Ellen Ellen Himmelbaum is the mum and the daughter is Maya Himmelbaum named after my daughter Maya

Steve Hoare (09:10.401)
A Himmelbaum? Okay. Yeah.

Maya yeah yeah of course yeah anyway so Ellen says to Maya she said she said and you're up here gambling and Maya turns to her and says mum it's not gambling it's a game of skill which is just this brilliant line because I don't know if you know this Elliot but like court cases have been fought on that line for the best part of several decades in fact that was Pokerstar's whole Pokerstar's lawyers

whole reason for operating in America for so long before they were shut down on Black Friday. So I just thought that bit was spot on. I know if you were aware of all that background.

Elliott Gerner (09:52.814)
Yeah.

Elliott Gerner (09:57.403)
thank you, yeah no it's true and we were, yeah I was, yeah the whole Black Friday thing is quite, yeah it had a massive upheaval on the American.

poker online market. Yeah, it huge ramifications and it's a big shame. And it's now opening up again, I think in several states. I think it's like three or four states you can play in, but still not across the country. It went through on Obama's legislation. Is it six? Is it six? But didn't it go out? It was kind of went out on some weird, like on the back of some other kind of shipping law and they added it onto the end or something.

Steve Hoare (10:15.12)
Yes.

Steve Hoare (10:19.525)
Six. Six actually.

Steve Hoare (10:31.855)
The Safe Ports Act, the Safe Ports Act. It's almost as if it's my job to know these things.

Elliott Gerner (10:33.368)
There we go, look at you, look at you, safe port set.

Yeah, it's very good, very good. But yeah, no, that line about it's a skill, it's gambling and all the rest. It's, yeah, I'd written it sort of like three or four or five times we kept on adding and taking away and it was, but it's absolutely, I mean, it's absolutely the case. It is a game of skill. And that's why it's such a different game, isn't it, to any of the other casino games like roulette or blackjack, because it is, you know, there's skill involved, obviously. And that is the, that's the difference. And that's why.

I love it and that's why I like the daughter loving it and that's why I always felt it worked really well. I was listening to a podcast actually with a woman poker player who teaches her own daughter poker because she sees it as an exactly that and she had lots of other women poker players sort of on this chat and it was really interesting and my son plays it a lot, my daughter's less so but it's a fantastic game and yeah and that's how we always felt.

Steve Hoare (11:36.773)
Do know what? It's actually that argument that kept Isai Sheinberg, the Pokestars founder, out of prison. When he eventually went back to the States to plead guilty to gambling charges, the judge kind of was lenient because his lawyers had advised him that it was a game of skill. So he just did time served or whatever. He didn't actually go to prison. I thought it'd be... Go on. I thought it'd be really...

Elliott Gerner (12:00.218)
What was that? So why... Yeah, go on, sorry. What was it? So why was he... What was...

Steve Hoare (12:08.0)
Perhaps we'll edit this bit out. But go on, you go first.

Elliott Gerner (12:10.015)
yeah we'll do we'll edit the delay out no you can finish off what you were going to say and then I'll ask and then we can yeah and back in

Steve Hoare (12:17.436)
So Isai Sheinberg, the Pokestars founder, he's from Lithuania but he went and moved to Canada but obviously a young Jewish guy founded Pokestars. I thought we should have got him on this. I mean this would not be easy. I don't know him personally, I've only spoken to him once. But I do know people that know him. that would have quite interesting to show him this film.

Elliott Gerner (12:45.356)
love to show him it I'd love to show it to him we've we sent it to a friend of Simon my co-writer director he is he's been in touch with a poker player whose name will come to me is like the fourth biggest money earner in the circuit I should look it up while we're talking actually but he's a poker stars Hendon mob sorry we'll have to edit this out as well sorry Steve

gosh name what's sorry my fourth biggest winner

Elliott Gerner (13:25.078)
Yeah of course yeah now it's quite he's yeah coming to you very soon Jason Coombe that's it okay I'll just

Steve Hoare (13:38.043)
So your friend has shown it, you can tell me that again. Your colleague.

Elliott Gerner (13:41.528)
Yeah, once that's get you back up on the thing.

Yeah, there we go. Sorry about that. Yes, I'd love to show it to the guy who started up Pokestars. That would be amazing. We've just sent it to Jason Kuhn, who Simon, my co-director and writer, knows. So I'd be curious to see what he thinks about it. But obviously he knows it's a massive game of skill. He's made about $58 million in online or in tournament winnings over the years. So he's doing all right for himself. yeah, I mean, that's always how I see it. That's how I try and convince my

wife you know when I'm playing online. It's a game of skill, it's a game of skill don't worry. But it's a brilliant game, it's a fantastic game.

Steve Hoare (14:24.4)
So, and in the film we have the rabbi, Tracy Ann turns to the rabbi for assistance in this. I'm not gonna give too much away, but anyway, but we end up seeing the rabbi playing a bit of poker. Do we know any famous rabbis that play poker? Do you know any famous rabbis that or any rabbis that play poker? Is this okay for rabbis to play poker?

Elliott Gerner (14:47.171)
Yeah.

It's absolutely okay for a rabbi to play poker I'm pretty sure but when it comes to playing poker on a Friday night on the Shabbat on the Sabbath probably less so before I pitched the film to the Jewish Film Festival I WhatsApp'd a friend of mine who is a rabbi a female rabbi and she's a liberal rabbi so she's not like the reform she's not she's not as sort of orthodox as other rabbis might be and I said is that okay for

a rabbi to play poker on a Friday night and she whatsapped me back and said, Elia not even we play poker on a Friday night. So that was kind of that made me laugh and that's what I said to them in the pitch and it's true but you know without giving too much of the story away the rabbi saw that the girl who was alienated from her family you know in order to bring her back into the family fold it was the right move for him to join in.

the poker game.

Steve Hoare (15:50.615)
Absolutely, he's a good rabbi. As they tend to be, right? I guess. One hopes. So what's next for the film? Where can people see it if they desire after this scintillating conversation?

Elliott Gerner (15:52.204)
is a good, good hearted Rabbi.

They tend to be, yeah, man of the, yeah.

Elliott Gerner (16:12.228)
yeah well it's it's just done the it's just done the rounds of the UK actually so it's been in London and ten cities or so around the UK

and we are now going to be taking it onto the film festival circuit around the world so we're just submitting it to the US film festivals at the moment so watch this space but it will certainly go out you know it will go out to film festivals around the world but we haven't got any specific dates yet I can give you but it will certainly happen and so this year and the next these short films tend to have about a two-year lifespan so we're going to sort of optimize that and then hopefully you know if can get it onto the

onto a streamer that would be fantastic but that's the first plan is for the film festivals both like you know we've been told like Tribeca would really suit this film you know we'd love to get it into Sundance as well as Jewish film festivals it's got a lot of universal themes and we love the film for that so it feels like it will resonate with anyone really who you know who you know you don't have to like poker either but it's been really well received we've been

asked whether we'd turn it into a feature because the characters have got legs so we feel like we could you know potentially take the characters off to sort of Vegas on a road trip little Miss Sunshine kind of vibe to the film which is what we've been suggested so that's kind of that's another road that we're probably going to go down to so watch this space yeah for a feature yeah yeah it's great yeah

Steve Hoare (17:42.972)
That's cool. That's very exciting. Presumably there's a lot of things that need to fall into place before you take it to Hollywood though.

Elliott Gerner (17:55.002)
Yes, exactly. So we've got to write the thing first, but that's the next step. yes, it would be a long road ahead and no doubt it would be very difficult. you know, you've got to, I think we'll give it a go. I think without trying, we'll never know. But it's something that you're not going to do. No one's going to come and say, here's a million dollars, go write it, make it. It's just got to be, you know, we're going to have to start by talking to producers and getting funding.

and getting, you know, and obviously that and to do that we'll need a script but we've got a great calling card in the short film so you know that's that's helpful.

Steve Hoare (18:35.022)
Absolutely yeah well I loved it and I recommend it to everyone and I think that's about all for today so thanks very much Elliot.

Elliott Gerner (18:43.598)
No, it's a pleasure, Steve. It's a total pleasure, yeah.

Steve Hoare (18:46.619)
I guess we... Do you think I'm allowed to leave this without asking you whether Arsenal are going to win the league? I think that's probably how we put it.

Elliott Gerner (18:52.12)
No, you've always got to ask but I don't know, well the answer is probably not but we could win the Champions League so that's okay. I'll take that. And will Southampton survive?

Steve Hoare (18:58.011)
yes yes I think you should

Steve Hoare (19:08.27)
Absolutely not, no, no chance. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks everyone, thanks Elliot. That was the iGaming Daily, all about the film Friday Night Flop, showing at a festival near you soon. And this was iGaming Daily with OptiMove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market. Thanks, bye bye.

Elliott Gerner (19:09.306)
okay well let's end this on a really positive note for both of us

Ep 412: A night at the movies with Friday Night Flop Director Elliott Gerner
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