iGaming Daily

Fernando Noodt (00:13.581)
Though I have to say goodbye, remember me. That's what probably the industry in Brazil is saying, but only the way we know it so far, because it is changing and turning into something very different starting next January the 1st. Welcome to iGamingDaily, where we will talk today about the Brazilian industry and the changes it's going through over the last few months, weeks, days, hours, minutes, seconds, and I don't know what comes after seconds, but...

I'm your host for today, Fernando Nott, senior business journalist for SBC Noticias. And I am joined today by the wonderful SBC Noticias Brazil team or part of it because we don't have the full crew today, but we have editor Ricardo Assis. Ricardo, welcome to another episode. How are you?

Ricardo Assis (01:03.85)
Hello Fer, nice to be here again. Excited to talk a little bit more about Brazil because things are in motion every single day, things are changing, so we always have a lot to talk about.

Fernando Noodt (01:16.443)
And since we have so much to talk about Brazil, we also have business journalist for SBC Noticias Brasil, Ana Maria Menezes. Ana, how are you?

Ana Maria Menezes (01:26.359)
Olá Fer! It's always a pleasure to be here. I'm pretty excited as well to talk a bit more about Brazil today.

Fernando Noodt (01:34.191)
And to talk about Brazil, we have the person that started the whole thing, right? The SBC Noticias Brazil OG, Isadora Marcanti, which is now Relationships Manager Brazil. How are you, Isa?

Isadora (01:46.971)
Hello, Fer, hello, Ricardo, Ana. I'm really happy to be here. It's the first time that I'm going to record an episode with Ana and Ricardo at the same time, which is awesome. Last week I had with Ricardo and Fer and today with Ana and Ricardo as well. And Fer, always, you as a host, always great, right, Fer? It's incredible to have you as a host in every episode. So I'm really happy to be here with you guys.

Fernando Noodt (02:08.166)
Thank you very much.

I appreciate the compliments and I think how the Brazilian crew has grown over the last few months, it's proof of how the Brazilian industry and the Brazilian market has grown as well. So I guess we can just dive into it, straight into it. But first, let's thank Optimove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market and sponsor of iGaming Daily. As a special offer,

OptiMove are offering new clients a free first month when they buy OptiMove. For more information and claim the free month, go to optiMove.com slash SBC. And also we will leave the links down in the podcast episode description so you can find them more easily. But now I was talking about, remember me. I have to say goodbye. And someone had to say goodbye over the last few hours or someone said.

Isadora (03:01.884)
you

Ana Maria Menezes (03:06.223)
Yeah.

Fernando Noodt (03:08.755)
goodbye in the Brazilian market and a very big name decided to exit. Brazil. Ana, you have the floor.

Ana Maria Menezes (03:19.339)
Yes, so unfortunately, Bedway has decided not to move forward with its operation license and they announced the closure of the operations in the country, so here in Brazil. On November 5, social users on X started to post screenshots of the emails they received from Bedway, informing them that the deposits were suspended and the company wouldn't be operating anymore from November 13th forward. So it was quite a shock, to be honest, and the company applied for a license starting in 2025.

So next year and they also received authorization from the Ministry of Finance to continue operating Brazil Until the end of this year. So there's only two months left less than two months actually to the end of the year So yeah, it came quite quite as a shock and we would know for sure if they were approved for next year and at least they're still gonna be published on the Van Buren team with the names of the sports book Sports books approved by the Ministry of Finance to operate in Brazil. So regularly

Just for a small context, Betway is not the first sports book to leave Brazil, Other operators such as Irene Sporchivo or Amuleto Bet or Vettel and John also decided not to move forward with the license. We do have a requirement of new rules and it also includes the payment of 13 million reais for a license fee. yeah, we're seeing the development of operators still deciding if they want to keep running the market.

here in Brazil and Betwey was one of those unfortunately who decided to leave.

Fernando Noodt (04:55.081)
And even though several people from SVC actually reached out to the company and tried to get a comment on the decision, most of them actually replied there was nothing official about the company in general exiting Brazil. But like you said, there was a very clear message for the Brazilian users over the last few days, and they are certainly out of the country.

Ana Maria Menezes (05:07.577)
Yeah.

Ana Maria Menezes (05:17.988)
Yeah.

When people access the platform, the official platform of Bedway and try to register, so this is something actually we all did as well just to check for ourselves. And when users try to register for the platform, it's like a message shown explaining the decision. So it says, Bedway customers, regrettably, that's a hard word to pronounce, regrettably, we have decided not to proceed with acquiring the regulated license offered in the country.

We will work with you to refund any outstanding balances and if you have any account you you like to discuss Please contact us via email. So, you know actually the procedure which is pretty basic when a company's, you know, live in a country However, they didn't have any other explanation besides that So we're still kind of in the dark as to why they have decided to do this So, you know with this decision the betting at the sports book actually

Bedway sponsors West Ham United for an example and this is just, I don't know, it's pretty unusual to be honest. But yeah, we tried to contact them as well in different platforms and we didn't get anything besides what you already said about, you know, nothing being official, but it is official if we see that how they reached out to the customers and what is life on their websites. So yeah.

Fernando Noodt (06:47.16)
Yeah, that sounds pretty much official to me, even though the company has yet to issue a statement regarding their exit of Brazil. But Bedway has definitely gone through a bumpy road during 2024 because Brazil is not the first market they exit. actually, Super Group actually announced in July that they would start their planned exit from the US sports book markets because they were not happy with the status quo.

Ana Maria Menezes (06:49.121)
Yeah.

Fernando Noodt (07:16.855)
And they also decided to end their Swedish operation from October 1st. So now with Brazil that makes it three markets if you consider US as one, but it's actually more than that. But yeah, definitely a tough year or a year of tough decisions probably for Bedway and Supergroup. But of course the decision to leave Brazil had most of us scratching our heads on why they would exit the market with two months left.

before a definitive license coming to force next January the 1st. so I would now like to give the representative of Joao Pessoa the floor to go into a speculation ground. Right now, let's make things bedway. We couldn't get an official word from bedway yet. Let's go into speculation grounds and Isa, why don't you tell us what you think could have pushed bedway to make the decision to leave Brazil?

Isadora (07:54.268)
You

Isadora (08:13.249)
Well, well, it's complicated because since we don't have an official explanation for that, it's easy to, like you said, speculate and understand why. not only as a relationships manager, but like before, when I was in Especial Noticias Brasil as well, we talk so much to people in the industry, to leaders in the industry. And the...

The most common sense for us is that...

people are leaving or not applying for a license or big companies such as Betway leaving the country show us, like I said on the other podcasts, the legal uncertainty that Brazil has. It's unbelievable how it's like that in every department of the country, in economy, in education, in everything, it's just so uncertain that people get afraid of jumping in or investing in the country. So for a company such as Betway to be able

to actually leave the market and they are... I forgot the word. Wait a second.

Isadora (09:29.191)
Okay.

Okay, I'm just gonna use another one. Sorry, Ania. So for a big company such as Better Way to Leave the Market, showing to the country that they don't mind losing the amount of revenue they can make in one single year, just because they're not sure if they want to be in the country and to go through all these legal uncertainties that we've been facing right now and we've been facing for years, it gives us a message

that Brazil is not doing well when it comes to regulating the market. I talk to operators, talk to affiliates, that's my job at SPC to talk to them, to understand their needs and to know their goals and what they want to do in the country for the next year and the next five years and so on. So we talk to them and they all say the same thing.

they change the like the government changes the rules as they like at the moment that they want so the companies don't know actually what's gonna happen imagine like i don't know if that's the case of that way but that's what i heard from other operators as well you go to a market you pay for the license and i don't know a month after you pay 30 million brl which is like roughly you six million dollars you just get another law ordinance published changing the

whole game changing your strategic plans, your growth measures, everything that you want it to do. So it's a bit complicated because if we keep doing this, if the government keeps changing the rules and not letting players, the big players of the market, know what they can actually do in a year without any news knocking on their doors, it's really bad.

Isadora (11:25.167)
it's not we're going to strangle the market and kill the market eventually the legal market of course like not the parallel market because this will never end

Fernando Noodt (11:38.314)
Of course, it's not only the government that may generate this juridical uncertainty, because speaking of uncertainty, the Attorney's Office, the General's Attorney's Office has filed an action of unconstitutionality before the Supreme Court against the legislation that rules the industry. I mean, that sounds big. So what do they argue and why do they file this action now?

Isadora (11:58.685)
You

Isadora (12:04.541)
yeah, Attorney General's just filed a lawsuit against the industry to the Supreme Court, like you said, fair. It's quite funny actually because the argument is always the same. It's like moral values and you're ruining the family, you're ruining the country. We never saw an argument that shows us numbers, that gives us rights.

things to think about and understand the situation. It's always because like Paulo Gonebranco, the prosecutor said, the legislation is insufficient to protect the fundamental rights of the consumers because the market, the sports betting market, the online sports betting market has a predatory personality. What did he mean with that? What was the goal with this? Do you have any...

any reason why you're saying that? have any proof? Do you have any evidence that the industry says that? Like you said, it doesn't stop. We always see new things happening. And that's actually the main argument to get the law 14.790 that regulated the sports betting market last year to get actually unconstitutionalized. So they don't

see the law as a tool to protect consumers, to protect the industry, to protect the civil society in general. They see the law as a threat, let's say like that, to the consumers and to the civil society. So that's the main reason why they're asking for the law 14.790 to be considered unconstitutional.

really don't know what's going to happen if the Supreme Court agrees with that. I mean, we know what's going to happen in legal terms. The law would be considered illegal and the regulated market would be shut down. But I don't know what's going happen after that because we already have established market in the country. It's crazy, but we do.

Ricardo Assis (14:32.804)
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

Fernando Noodt (14:32.992)
Yeah, but there's only one thing left to do. Go ahead, Ricardo.

Ricardo Assis (14:36.591)
Yeah, it does make sense because he said that the legislation is insufficient but the legislation isn't yet live yet so it's gonna be live in January so why they are being so anxious about it because they don't have like a runtime to evaluate it they're doing it before I don't understand it sorry, you can go for it

Fernando Noodt (14:59.83)
I guess we have only one thing to do now, which is hashtag Brazil wait and see. Yeah, wait and see what happens with this action filed by the attorney general's office. But things have changed a lot over the last year in Brazil. And we're almost at the goal line, like Ricardo said, of having licensed companies. And of course, I'm talking about the definite licenses, not the provisional ones that are enforced now.

Isadora (15:02.949)
Waiting to see. Always.

Fernando Noodt (15:27.32)
But some people in the government like Isa mentioned before, including no other than President Lula da Silva, have made a few comments that may have scared operators over the last few days.

Ricardo Assis (15:39.459)
Yeah, Jorge Cajuru, who is the president of the CPI Das Batches, had said like in the 7th of November that he has a proposal that from the beginning of the... Sorry, I'll start again. So, Jorge Cajuru, who is the president of the CPI Das Batches, has said that he has a proposal that the government, by a decree, determines that...

only betting on results should be approved here in Brazil. So all the micro betting, betting on cards, on corners, on players, goals, penalties, should be banned. And three days later, he talked with Lula, and Lula said that this is a great idea, that they should do it, that they should go forward with it. So it has been a lot of pressure from the media and from

other players of other industries, the banks and the commerce here in Brazil on betting. And also we had the situation regarding Paquetá, Bruno Henrique and Luiz Henrique, who are high status players here in Brazil. The three have represented the national side a few times, so they are big players.

and they're being accused of forcing a yellow to manipulate the market. So there's a lot of pressure because of this, but if I'm being honest, I don't think that this will go through because it's only going to push the people to the illegal market. It's impossible to ban this kind of betting.

Fernando Noodt (17:27.781)
Yeah, Brazil is not the first country to propose this. We were talking actually with the SBC Americas editor, Jessica Wallman, about it. And she was wondering if anyone will ever actually go through with it, with banning prop bets and banning all these type of markets. Because this has been, of course, in the mouth and in the minds of a lot of regulators over the world. But that's not the only thing that happened over the last few hours in Brazil, Ricardo.

Ricardo Assis (17:58.215)
Yeah, Luis Fux, who is the... Just a second, I have to open, sorry, I'll start again. So Luis Fux has released a decision today, in the morning of this Wednesday, partially agreeing with the ADI... How do I say that, Isadora?

Isadora (18:19.161)
What? Sorry.

Ana Maria Menezes (18:21.077)
Act of Incussionality. Action of Incussionality. Inconstitutionality.

Ricardo Assis (18:24.096)
Inconscionality, yeah. Yeah, I'll try again. So, Minister Luis Fux of the Supreme Court has released today a statement agreeing partially with the action of inconstitutionality 7721 and 7723 and he has proposed that

beneficiaries of Bolsa Familia and social programs shouldn't be able to use their funds to bet. So we'll see how this will go, but this is a decision brought by the Supreme Court, so it will be enforced. also he said that... I'll start again. And also he said that it will have to be... Sorry.

Fernando Noodt (19:18.13)
worries.

Ricardo Assis (19:18.941)
And also he said that the measures to protect the children and the teenagers regarding the publicity of bedding should be enforced immediately. So two big decisions in one day. Let's see how this will go.

Fernando Noodt (19:37.79)
Yeah, hashtag wait and see again. And of course, advertising has been also a very hot topic in South America, especially.

So it's no surprise that Brazil goes down that road as well. But speaking of regulation, we have spoken about it before, but Ana Maria, you did an interview with Senator Iraja Abreu during the SBC Summit Latino America 2024 event, and it is now live on YouTube, right? Why don't you talk us a bit about the interview?

Ana Maria Menezes (20:07.085)
Yes.

Okay, so the first thing to our listeners actually, the interview was actually made of questions that weren't presented during the panel. So it's completely exclusive. So if you do want to hear some new inputs about land-based casinos, you should check that out definitely. We also have the article published on SPC News Brasil. So this is also great, Notícias Brasil. So you should definitely check that out.

about, you know, we always talk about the maximum capacity of land-based casinos. So what is the maximum? What is the maximum? But we usually don't talk about just how to stop overcrowded casinos in the same place. So we talked a little bit about this, about protection of Brazilians and foreigner tourists when they come to play. So it's also a pretty interesting material because those are topics that we're not really

covered specifically in the law right now. it's something for the future as well. So operators can also be prepared by, you know, the quotes of Senador de Rajá. It's a great opportunity to learn a bit more about how the Senate is thinking of land-based casinos. And we're also getting, you know, a lot of ground covered with this matter, especially during the hearings that we're having here in Brazil. So operators are, you know, looking

forward to it and of course other operators should also be on the lookout for this because it's gonna be you know like a big a major topic in Brazil in the next few months so yeah waiting to see, waiting to see

Isadora (21:52.076)
Ha ha ha.

Fernando Noodt (21:53.25)
hashtag wait and see and make sure you check the interview with Senator Irajá on the YouTube channel of SBC events. Be aware it is in Portuguese so yeah you'll have to deal with the auto-translate and you are under your own risk you know but if you know Portuguese make sure you check it out also make sure to subscribe to SBC Noticias Brasil newsletter to

keep up to date with all this information we have discussed here and everything we will discuss in the future will surely be covered in SBC Noticias Brasil but that has been all for today in this iGaming Daily episode and I'll thank all the team from Brazil. A big shout out to Anaya McDonnell for producing this episode and to all our listeners out there. We'll see you in the next one.