iGaming Daily

James (00:04.034)
Signs of clarity come to the UK gambling space as both the Gambling Commission and Bettenham Gaming Council offer a clearer insight into how affordability checks will be applied. Announced this morning, the BGC and UKGC in tandem unveiled the establishment of a new voluntary code on customer checks, which is set to minimise friction of financial checks and improve consistencies in know -your -customer duties. In addition, the UKGC also looks set to implement some

quote -unquote light touches affordability checks with the intention of boosting safety and choice for consumers This will be the topic of today's episode of I gaming daily Supported by opti move with me your host James Ross I am joined by SPC news's content director Ted memory and casino bees editor Joe Streeter It's been a while since I last hosted an episode and you know I'm returning on an emergency podcast because we've had some some big news today

But how have you both been on your ends? Been good? Dead?

Yeah, great. Good to have you on this emergency. The roof is on fire for UK gambling. And James, you've got to put it out.

Heheheheh

Joe (01:13.996)
Yeah.

Hehehehe.

James (01:18.37)
I'll do my best. I'll do my best. Joe, you good?

Yeah, I'm all good. I'm all good. Thanks, James. And it would be remiss of me if I didn't congratulate you as well for those that don't know you are a way tie in the knot. So congratulations, my friend.

Oh yeah, thank you. Yeah, I've been away for like a week and a half because I got married. Long overdue actually, to be honest. Well, that's what everyone says anyway. No, yeah, I took a big leap, got married. It's done now. So house bought, child had, wedding done. All the big markers are done now. I'm back now. I don't have anything else to look forward to in life. What was I saying? This podcast, obviously.

Hehehehe.

Before we jump into the topic though, we've already talked about my wedding which is the big news of the day. But I think it's a good time to highlight the support of the Rgaming Daily podcast I already mentioned briefly in the introduction, but that is OptiMove, the number one CIRM market solution for the Rgaming market. I recently had a discussion with Pini Yakhule, the CEO of OptiMove, about their positionless marketer, which is said to provide companies with a competitive edge, improve in

James (02:33.218)
Efficiency and reduce information loss and a professional who can excel in various roles and tasks Those interested in hearing more about the position of marketer check out the recent CRM focused I gaming daily episode with myself and pinny It was incredibly insightful Even though I spent most of the time googling basketball terms, which is which is where this kind of thing was inspired from So check out that episode and as a special office. Sorry as a special offer. I

Optimove are still offering new clients a free first month when they buy Optimove. For more information and to claim the free month go to optimove .com forward slash SBC. I'll also leave links in the episode description. Cool, so Ted, we're gonna start with you. What does this morning's announcement by the UKGC confirm for UK stakeholders?

Mm -hmm.

teddy (03:26.51)
So lots to cover this morning, but the Gammon Commission essentially confirmed its schedule and timelines in which it will test the proposals and recommendations on key criteria related to the Gammon Review's white paper. Put simply in essence, the Commission put forward its technical framework to test recommended proposals related to financial risk checks.

online game designs, terms and conditions related to direct marketing and strengthening age verification within land -based venues. So that was the announcement and consultations this morning. However, as you noted in your intro,

the pilot on financial risk checks have been prioritized as it's recognized as the kind of key area of conflict for multiple stakeholders in which the commission has pledged to maintain unintrusive light checks for customers. So what we're now getting is a kind of a clearer picture of how affordability checks will be tested, will be rolled out and will be applied. It's really now in the commission's hands.

James (04:38.498)
Mm -hmm and Joe is the commission implementing a life pilot on affordability checks starting out 150 pounds?

So it does start at 150 pounds, but the live pilot won't affect consumers or players, whatever you want to describe them as. And I think hearing from the UK GC this morning, one of the things that was really key from them was that this consultation period we've just had, while some consultation periods are seen as token and are just there to tick a box, they really wanted to underline that this consultation period was meaningful and had had an impact.

on the moves that we have seen today. And they've invited the, it will be as part of the pilot, the pilot, it will be some of the biggest operators, the biggest UK stakeholders, so they can guarantee they get the strongest pull, the strongest test off the back of the pilot to kind of make sure everything works correctly. And, you know, I wanted to ask Ted actually, because we kind of knew this was coming in some form, do you think today's announcement?

will have caught UK stakeholders by surprise or will they be ready to go with this? Will they be ready to sort of implement these changes?

Good question. Throw me a curve ball there man. Is that a basketball analogy? No. Alright, give me two six. Look, I think the pilot should be viewed by stakeholders as the gambling commission checking the technical remit of what is applicable to maintain what is desired, which is unintrusive checks, right? But that is a very, very broad...

James (06:00.098)
Hehehehehe

Ahaha Ahaha

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

teddy (06:23.534)
broad objective to achieve. And essentially, I think the way that it is rolling out kind of this pilot, it's really there to check whether it has a technical framework, right? Or the technical parameters can be applied, you know, from just running checks to an actual live environment. And again, I think that this pilot,

and the six months that it's going to undertake, you might see numerous revisions in what is applied and how customers are checked.

Yeah, so in order to do that, they've said they're gonna kind of use data that is already available to the public. It's not gonna require businesses to focus on details such as postcode or job title, but it's gonna be through data that is already available to the public. So I guess that's how it's gonna be seamless, but putting that into practice is gonna be the...

the interesting factor here over the next six months, as you say, Ted, or the six months from August.

100 % and look, I think the the UKGC needs to be kind of applauded here because of the first I think global regulator that is is trying to kind of apply a more a more technically based way to verify customers and to actually

teddy (08:00.622)
you know, have a gauge on the problem of financial vulnerability, which is the biggest kind of dark area in gambling across all markets.

Yeah, that.

Joe (08:09.676)
Yeah, that's a really interesting point actually. And I know you have some fantastic discussions on here about various European markets and even further afield, but specifically the European markets. I have no doubt we'll be casting in a keen eye on the UK market today and over this period to see how things work out here and to see how these plans are put into practice to see what they can take from them. I think, yeah, that lessons will be learned across Europe from this period.

Yeah, while Joe takes over my hosting duties, I'm gonna direct a quick question to you Joe, but before I do, Ted's gonna turn his phone on silent. So we stop getting them notifications. No, it's fine.

Apologies, the sins. It's slack, it's slack. It's my eternal enemy of... Sorry. Keep it down, Joe.

It's...

James (08:54.626)
You

It's a UK GC messaging him that I'm keep it down.

I'm sorry.

James (09:03.362)
Well, Tabs has just gone on mute or his laptop on mute, whichever it was. Joe, there's four stages or important stages to kind of acknowledge. You've already mentioned August this year. He just mentioned the other three important stages of this UKGC implementation.

Joe (09:22.636)
Yep, so.

James (09:30.882)
November.

November is the personal management licenses. Yeah.

the personal management license.

So the three other stages, sorry.

Yeah, it's November 2024, January 2025 and February 2025.

Joe (09:58.284)
Oh, you stumped me a little bit. So, which is which, I've kind of got a bit dyslexic on the page.

So November 2024... recording.

It's just the personal management licenses.

going off your art.

James (10:20.386)
Don't worry, we can cut this bit out.

Joe (10:27.436)
and then August, 2024.

August 2024 is...

I'll say first.

500 a month checks will initially come to force a 500 pound a month from August 30th of August 24 before being reduced 150 a month from February 25th

Okay, yeah, no, I can talk about that actually. Okay, so, yeah, I think this was one of the key things that the gambling commission wanted to point out that in order to kind of ease the transition with the industry and to kind of listening to the feedback from the industry was for this kind of staggered approach to the implementation of the checks. And, you know, we see that because from the 30th of August, 2024,

Joe (11:15.916)
I you know that they will come into force at 500 pound a month and then they will be reduced to 150 pound a month from the 28th of February 2025. So yeah, interesting that it's staggered and you know some of the other things which we will speak about, you know with remote games and direct marketing are also at the start of 2025. So really staggering the implementation of these of these new regulations in order to see yeah in order to.

Hmm.

to give operators the best transitional period possible.

And Ted, does the commission pilot diverge from its original plan on test affordability checks on UK customers?

Oh, good question. In my opinion, it's a yes and no. Well, I mean, look.

James (12:00.61)
Heheheheh

teddy (12:05.422)
Yes, in the case that look, the standard threshold or the basic threshold is increased from 125 to 150 pounds, right? But if we maintain that as kind of the original remit, like the 150 pound check will be carried out over a period of 30 days and 500 within a running 365 day period, right? So that's kind of the standard template that they will attach. However, I mean, I had to kind of...

review and over kind of old notes that there was no mention by the UK GC about how we'll apply the checks to the higher deposit threshold of losses greater than 1000 pounds within 24 hours and 2000 pounds within 90 days. And that's the critical area of concern for UK racing regarding.

their what they regard as their kind of customer base being impacted by changes. Do I think that the thresholds might be revised in the future? I don't know. I think the UKGC is going to stick to the technical remit just because they need to know whether it is technically approachable, whether it's technically feasible to implement them at such low thresholds.

And should the industry assume that affordability checks will be set at the UK GCSE?

Again, only time will tell. This is a debate that's going to continue to ramble on until we get kind of a conclusive picture of what the UK GC is willing to implement into law in terms of deposit thresholds.

teddy (13:49.038)
Again, I think there's a lot of pressure for them to change, to take it to an upper tier, maybe to make it referential to a specific gaming criteria and to kind of implement a focus on other areas that they think are kind of more high risk, such as online casino, maybe a threshold, a specific threshold for gaming segments. So I think what the pilot might be.

might be kind of slightly diverged from what it is at the moment.

And you mentioned gaming in second there, that's a nice little perfect segue back to Joe. Can you just talk us through about the changes involving our gaming?

Yeah, so again, much to the theme, it's kind of what we anticipated and what we already have, but it's very much the harmonization across an iGaming portfolio for an operator, bringing other things into line, other games into line with current slots regulations. For instance, no audio or visual celebrations when a return is less than or equal to the stake.

That will now be across games. We'll see casino games spin speeds of less than five seconds. There's different things, no slam stops as well. I think these are just to try and dilute the intensity of some of these games and to very much bring, harmonize the rest of an iGaming portfolio with the slots.

Joe (15:29.196)
the slots games and slots regulations. And those changes are from the 17th of January, of course, as well.

and confirmation of changes to market regulations. What impacts will these have? And Joe, this is for you mate.

Well, I think, you know, it's not major, right, but I think the one thing it will affect, you know, with opt -ins and stuff like that, I think the one element it could affect is, and Ted, please, please correct me if you disagree here, or is I think it could affect conversion during big events. I mean, we have the euros coming up, we have, we've just had the Grand National, you know, it might be, it might provide an extra challenge.

for operators when they're looking to confer their customers or players they get during the Grand National or during the Euros into casino players or into other areas of the platform. I think that's where it could provide a challenge, an extra layer of difficulty because of the new regulations with opting in to marketing.

James (16:37.666)
Challenging, total challenging.

Yeah, look, I mean, one of the things about today's announcement is that we're moving on to kind of the technical aspects of how gambling will be governed. But I think that the industry has to kind of step back at one point and put its case that you need kind of. You need some consumer trust.

And they also have to kind of look at kind of consumer infringement of, you know, does gaming just become too technical or are there kind of too many barriers for the for the consumer to go and engage with gambling? And does that become a risk in itself? Right.

Because it's the same as we've seen it in other nations, right? And not necessarily for gambling policy, but for alcohol or tobacco or other adult sectors where it just... You've got so many laws infringing on the consumer that they just go, well, forget it. I'm going to go and take the unlicensed route. So again, I think there's a high focus on the technical remit of the gambling review. But...

Ultimately, shouldn't we be looking at the kind of overall consumer reaction to how they respond to changes?

Joe (18:07.116)
It's a good point that you make, Ted, and you almost feel cliché saying it, but if these are too tight, we are going to draw more consumers to the black market. And you do feel like you're edging that way. And it's a dangerous game that's being played for sure.

You know, convenience does have a big value.

And Ted, how is the BGC helping the UK GC with its pilot?

So coinciding with today's announcement, the Bentley and Gaming Council, BGC, it has implemented an interim voluntary code for its members in which it is asked for required actions on customer accounts that exceed net deposits of £5 ,000 on a rolling month basis.

and 25 ,000 within a 12 month period. And it just says that members must ensure at a minimum level that they undertake a risk assessment of a one -to -one interaction with the customer via phone call or via live chat, assess whether the customer has any indication of harm, and also,

teddy (19:27.534)
to request personal documents related to the annual income and wealth. BGC also maintains its long -term commitment to protecting consumers under the age of 24 and recommends that members start to implement checks for the threshold of deposits under £2 ,500 on a rolling month basis.

And you know this code is voluntary Does this mean some operators who operate our lower threshold remain where they are or will they be forced to move into the higher thresholds?

I think this will be down to the operators. What we know is that across the board, it's been a year of compliance changes and KYC changes at that. So if you're talking about the big PLCs, they've already implemented the majority of checks, even at a lower level than the BGC has recommended. Also,

Talking about compliance across the board, they're doing much more kind of one -on -one checks and screening of customers. You know, we see this with the new technologies on verification, technologies that can kind of detect early harms. So again,

All the changes that are being proposed are being implemented in some form or the other by the operators as a kind of license fulfilment.

James (21:02.21)
and final one just to round off the podcast both years can we make any assumptions that changes will be implemented by the end of

Joe will go with you in the tent.

Joe (21:17.772)
Uh.

Joe (21:21.292)
But then, yeah, so yeah, we have to... Ted, could you lead on this one, sorry?

teddy (21:30.222)
Okay, uh, can we make any assumptions on UK gambling?

Hehehehehe

So even if we take the BGC at their word, then there won't be any official changes until after the end of the year, right? Because January is the first time that we kind of get.

No. Okay. James, ask the question again.

Finally, can we make any assumptions that changes will be implemented by the end?

teddy (22:07.982)
Look, we've been covering the UK gambling reviews development for the past four years and what you know is that you really, yeah, it's a fool's game to make any assumptions on UK gambling. And I think it's good that we've got the technical remit and the framework of how changes are designed to be applied.

That is bringing clarity to the sector, right? But what the UK Gammon Commission is pitching, what it's proposing has never been done before. And I wish them luck. And the proof will be ultimately in...

what it wants. It wants un -intrusive checks and that is down to how the consumers view this, right? As much as the gambling operators would like to have an input, I think that that will be what determines the success of the gambling review and whether it has fulfilled kind of a mandate that it would not be intrusive on towards the customer.

Can I, in terms of your question is, I think everything's up for grabs at the moment.

Joe (23:37.676)
Yeah, you know, I kind of echo that, that, you know, the market is quite unpredictable, but praise the UK GC for providing some clarity today. And I, you know, I kind of lean with this, their timeline. I think it, a lot of, a lot will lie in this kind of six month period. I think that the right operators will be on board to try it out and to really get an accurate test of whether this can work. There might be some compliance issues.

Nah, leave that. Oh, damn, and whether this can work, but I think, yeah, it's gonna be a big close of the year for the industry.

Perfect and you know, this has been a breaking story today There's bound to be kind of following stories from this in the next few days and like Joe said even the next six months So for listeners out there keep an eye on SPC news and casino beats where Joe and Ted will be covering this as and when it does break and Keep an ear out on our gaming daily because we'll probably be doing another podcast about this relatively soon but anything we've talked about today, I will leave links to

articles in the description below and just before we do sign off I was off last week so I don't know if it was mentioned but on the 24th of April was iGamingDaily's one year anniversary so we've been doing this for a year and it's actually gone super quick Joe do you remember the first time we, Anted, do you remember the first time we actually did podcasts and how we felt how we felt doing it

Yeah.

teddy (25:11.31)
uh yeah i mean the internal paranoia you gave me about how i sound how i look on camera thank you james

I'm sorry.

hahahaha

James (25:20.994)
You're welcome. Well, you've not had to worry about how you look on camera because we're audio only, but who knows in the future, maybe your face will be appearing on YouTube and LinkedIn alike. But no, it's been a good year. It's been a fast year, good year. It's gone too quick. And we are over 250 episodes in, which is mind -boggling to think. But I thought, you know what? I was off last week. I thought I'd raise it. But apart from that, listeners, thank you for sticking with us for the first year and please stick with us for the next 10 years, obviously.

And keep an ear out as well for the next episode of our gaming daily, which will be tomorrow. Well, apart from that, thank you and goodbye.